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Last weekend, my wife Tina and I used a hotel package I bought for four days and three nights through a company called Wyndham Vacation Resorts®.
After staying in a Wyndham hotel last February while on business, a customer service representative (CSR) called me and said she was with Wyndham Hotels. “As a thank you,” she said, “I wanted to offer you a special hotel package.”
For about $100, I bought the above deal (3 nights/4 days in a luxury resort hotel).
The woman sounded older. She told me she was a grandmother. I never say yes to telemarketers, but there was something that seemed legit. She explained that there was no obligation. This was strictly a “Thank you.” Should I buy, it would be a luxury, multi-room suite with a kitchen. This was their way of saying thank you for staying at Wyndham. All I would be required to do would be to sit in on a two-hour presentation.
When I asked her if the presentation obligated me to buy something, she said, no, the presentation was to show off how great Wyndham facilities are, and it was their hope that we would share with others about the trip. The return, she explained, was that word-of-mouth advertising would spread the message for them. This was a targeted way to do their advertising as word-of-mouth advertising is proven to work best.
Everything she told me was a lie. The presentation was in fact a sales presentation for a timeshare package based on a points system. If you buy the points, you keep those points the rest of your life. The points buy timeshares at Wyndham hotel resorts all over the planet. We did not get a suite with a kitchen. We got a run-of-the-mill room with a kingsize bed.
Wyndham Vacations Resorts and its timeshares operation is a complete sales scam. Their sales people are sycophantic con artists. They will lie to land a sale. It may be a legitimate business, but they are a slimy business with awful business practices. They prey on the weak minded. They go out of their way to confuse and pressure people into buying their product, promising one-time, all-time-low rates.
They will not provide you with sales information that you can review or allow you to check against competitors’ rates to verify the deal.
I’m going to post the rest of my story below the fold (the long version). Should you happen upon this review, the one thing I want you to take away is that
Wyndham Hotels and Resorts is a HUSTLE. It’s a SCAM! It is a FRAUD!
Do not buy! Do not be pressured. It’s a ruse, and they should be shut down for bad business practices.
Click read more to read the detailed version of our story. Or click here, here, here or here for more stories.
The rest of the story
Like I said, I bought this hotel package under the guise that $100 got me a luxury $500/night suite. The Wyndham CSR repeatedly told me that it was an advertising technique to get word-of-mouth advertising for their new resorts throughout the country.
“What an amazing deal!” the grandma CSR told me repetitively. “All you have to do is tell your friends about us when you get back for four days of lovely R&R!”
She also said, “I’m a grandmother of five, and this is definitely something I would not pass up.”
Damn you, lying grandmother!
Reluctantly, I bought the package thinking, “Great, it will force me to take Tina on a long weekend on the cheap. How great is that?” If all I have to do is brag about the Wyndham hotel, that’s a great deal.
Months passed, and we never took the trip. We needed to take it within a certain timeframe, or the deal expired and I lost my money.
I decided a few weeks ago that I wanted to go to DC for the Jon Stewart rally. Tina and I recently bought a new/used car, and I thought, “We’ll break in the car with a road trip and use the resort package I bought.”
I called to make reservations, and the Wyndham rep told me, “Great, Mr. Witteveen. We can put you at the Crowne Plaza Alexandria or another hotel (forgot the name).”
“Wait a minute. I thought I bought a resort package with the Wyndham hotel,” I asked.
“Yes, sir, you did, but those rooms aren’t available that weekend. I can’t quite explain why. We’re going to put you in another hotel, though.”
“But I bought this because I was promised a multi-room suite at a Wyndham hotel,” I replied. In the back of my mind, I was going to invite regular reader SAW and his wife to drive up and stay with us. It was, after all, what the original sales person sold me on.
The reservation representative also explained, “Don’t forget, you’ll have to go to a sales presentation during your stay.”
“Sales presentation?” I asked, “I thought this was a presentation to show us your facilities. The CSR told me it was NOT a sales presentation.”
“I’m not sure what you were told, sir,” she told me. “It is a sales presentation.”
After a lengthy back and forth, I said, “Fine. Book the room.”
Twelve-hour Road Trip
Tina and I drove 12 hours from Chicago to DC. We arrived at the Wyndham sales office where we picked up a voucher for our hotel at the Crowne Plaza. It was confusing. We were given a time for our presentation, and off we went. We checked into our hotel, which looked nothing like the building featured on their web site, and it was in a shadier area of Alexandria.
On Sunday, we headed to our requisite sales presentation. We discussed that we’d say no. Thanks for the trip. Buh bye.
Once we arrived at the location, we entered a waiting area. No one greeted us. We waited for someone to come out, and finally a tall sales guy walks out and passes right by us. Tina said, “Excuse me, we’re here for some kind of presentation.”
He turned to us and said, “Oh, you’re in the wrong place. Go out the door. Walk down to the end. Go to the elevators and take it to the third floor.”
We walked to a set of elevators. We pressed “3″, and nothing happened. We tried another car. Nothing. There was a desk nearby with no attendant. A sign on the desk said, “Out to Lunch.”
We waited on a couch. If we didn’t go to this presentation, we wouldn’t get a voucher for our hotel stay. Finally a random guy exited an elevator and we asked how to get upstairs. “You need a security key or the security guard must let you up,” he explained. He let us upstairs using his key.
We walked into the Wyndham Vacations Resorts reception area where Tina explained how disappointing it was that we were having such a difficult time getting up to their space and that the security person was “out to lunch.” A cute, brunette receptionist gave Tina a “What the fuck do I care?” look and said, “I need your IDs, a major credit card and for you to sign this.”
She looked at the IDs and credit card, and handed them right back. I filled out the sheet with our address and income levels and handed it back.
Seconds later, she told us to go around the corner and help ourselves to refreshments. Tina and I poured a cup of water, and waited.
The Pitch!
Minutes later, a round man named LaMont, dressed in a three-piece suit introduced himself and walked us to a cubicle. He explained to us that we’d usually go in a group presentation, but today, we would do a one on one with him. We asked why, he said it was just how it was going to happen.
In LaMont’s cubical, it was bare except for a file holder with files in it, three catalogs, three 8×10 photos of his smiling, perfect family, a cup holder that read “World’s Greatest Dad” and one trophy-type silver cross with a bible verse printed on the front. The cross, cup holder and family portraits were planted to make us comfortable. God-fearing, family men do not lie, right?
LaMont opened his presentation with personal information. He’s married. Three kids. He’s worked with the company for under a year, and is also a Wyndham timeshare owner.
“Those are my three kids there.” We should have clued in when he stumbled telling us the kids names and ages. They weren’t all in the same photo.
LaMont took an 11 x 17 folded piece of paper. On one panel, there was information about the company with some logos on it. At the top, the parent company Wyndham. Below it, several offshoots of the company. Hotels under the parent company included AmeriHost Inn, Baymont Inn & Suites, Days Inn, Howard Johnson’s, Knights Inn,Ramada, Super 8, Travelodge, Wyndham, Wyndham Garden Hotels, and Wingate by Wyndham.
He folded the sheet of paper to a blank page. “NOTES” was printed along the top.
LaMont detailed the history of timeshares jotting down notes on the page as if it was a miniature chalk board. Timeshares used to be one location. It was a failed business model. Wyndham Vacations uses timeshare points.
The customer buys points and uses them in locations all over the planet. He showed us how it worked using the three catalogs. If you buy 150,000 points (roughly a week of vacation stays), you could stay three nights in Hawaii one month and four nights in Galena, Illinois another month. The great thing about his product is you aren’t required to spend all your points in one location. They are yours to spend where ever we pleased.
Tina and I walked into the meeting angry, and we were softened at this point. We liked what he was showing us.
LaMont was friendly, and it wasn’t as if we were still angry.
Then LaMont took us for a tour of the resort. He showed us a model room. The room was impressive. All the luxuries of home in a hotel. There was even a huge dining table inside that could be used for entertaining.
After that, we looked at a touch screen TV that showed us luxury destinations and resorts. LaMont seemed disappointed by some of the images that featured older pictures with drab decor. He promised us that they haven’t updated the presentation yet, but those hotels are updated with new TVs and better bedspreads.
We walked back to the cubical. He said, “Now we’re going to talk money.” He asked us how much vacation we thought we would take in 2011. “Would you take one week, two weeks, or three weeks?” he asked.
“One week,” I said. Tina reminded him that we really only vacation with family as they live far away, and lots of times vacations are spent with them rather than at exotic locations. He seemed not to hear it.
Lemme go talk to my manager
LaMont told us he would talk to his manager before returning with sheet of paper with figures on it. He showed us the package we could buy costs $24,000. But he, out of the goodness of his heart, would offer us the package for $20,000. We could finance the purchase through the Wyndham financing company or find one on our own. The payment would be nothing down, $307 a month for 10 years, and another charge of $57 a month which would act as dues or assessments. Even if we paid off the $20,000, the dues charge would go on forever, and it’s not guaranteed to stay at $57.
“Are you interested?” asked LaMont.
Tina and I looked at each other. “We’re interested,” I said. “It looks like a really great deal. But I would have to think about it. On principle, I would never buy something that I can’t take home and look at.”
“And I would never sell something that you weren’t protected from in the event you don’t want it later,” LaMont responded.
I explained to LaMont that I was a conservative business man. Besides my mortgage, I have no debt. If I was to buy this package, it would have to be something I could sit down with and review top to bottom.
“I know no business man who is so dumb as to take a deal presented in a 2-hour time frame and drop his hard-earned money on it.”
LaMont repeated the line about how we were protected, and our money would be returned to us if we weren’t happy. I told him he had to be kidding.
He told me that regardless of whether we bought this package or not, Wyndham would get our money anyway, because we’d probably stay at one of their many hotels. I told him, “Great. I still refuse to buy something you presented to me today … on principle. What don’t you understand? Send me home with that catalog and the deal you’re offering, and I’ll look it over.”
“Yes, sir,” he said. “I can send you home with it, but this deal is only good right now. Today.”
“Principle.” I said.
“Well, then, can I call you in a week to see where you’re at?” He asked.
“Sure. Call me in a week,” I said.
I think he was taken aback, because most people would have said, “No. I’ll call you.”
Later he said, “If you’re interested, you can call me in a week.”
“Great, I’ll do it,” I said.
Here’s the great part: He didn’t give me his card. He got up and said, I have to send you with a customer service representative who will give you a survey and have you sign off that you are refusing this deal. LaMont walked out of the cubical without saying goodbye.
The exit “survey”
We were ushered to another area with about 20 tables with a guy named Udu, I think. He spoke with a slight African accent, and even pronounced Paris like a native Francophone (“Pair-ee”).
The exit survey wasn’t a survey, it was another sales pitch. We were offered a week in Honalulu for “349 down”. He left out the word dollars. I think it was on purpose. All we had to do was give him $350 as a down payment? But he said it like the trip was $350. This had to be a scam.
I politely looked at him and said, “We decline.”
He escorted us to the door where we were given a $75 AmEx card. We were let out a different door from which we entered.
We left without any paperwork. We had no business card. No contact information for any of the people we talked to. We didn’t even have a last name for either rep.
That’s the kicker. They don’t want you to have that information. They don’t want you coming back. They are locked in a secure building. If I wanted to get back in, it would take a miracle. Plus, I’m in from out of town. It’s not like I am going to go down the street to a local business and talk to a sales rep. They want to make it as difficult as possible.
It seemed like I was in the movie, “The Sting.”
Wyndham Vacations and Resorts is a modern-day, full on hustle
To wrap it all up, don’t buy from Wyndham. Don’t buy anything that you can’t review. Don’t get sold.
There are plenty of places on the Internet detailing stories like mine. I wanted to write the entire story, as long as it is, because I wanted other people to learn what lengths Wyndham goes to in order to sell you on a “deal.”
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Laura Ross, Jeremy Witteveen. Jeremy Witteveen said: Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Timeshares, Hustlers, Con Artists, Frauds, Nightmares and YOU!: Last weekend, my wife … http://bit.ly/c9Ho30 [...]
I recently also attended their presentation. We were in Las Vegas on a beautiful evening when this gentleman approached us and told us that we can get a free $200 amex card to shop and play if we go look at this resort on the south of the strip and we do not have to buy anything. I asked him again, “are you sure we don’t have to buy anything?”. He said, “no no, this is just to show you around so you can tell your friends back in Canada where you live”. We went to this presentation where the guy kept emphasizing, “you will own this, you are going to be the owner of the property”. Few minutes later, he said so once you buy the credits and buy this package you can save so much money and all you have to do is make a phone call to us and reserve your place.” Normally, I am not a very smart guy but for a moment I thought I was a genius and asked him, “If I am the owner of this property, then why do I have to call in to make a reservation to stay at my own place”. Now, the problem here was that may be I did not understand what they were trying to explain or it was the lack of information about time sharing. I knew right away that this is not going to be good. As soon as I finished asking that, the rep got so angry and asked me if I care about the money or no. I told him yes I do and that’s why I do not want to give away to you. I told him I am not interested. The rep was so mad and told me to wait on a separate table. Another guy came in and told me that I can take their trial deal. i said no again and the guy kept throwing everything at us. I still said no so he escorted us to a place where they gave us $200 amex card.
Now, I am concerned about the form that we signed to get this amex card. Does anyone know if it was not another scam. It sounds very odd that they would just give us $200.
Thanks for your response and the story of your experience.
My hope is that it will help others realize how devious the Wyndham experience is, and that we can all work together to shut idiot business models like that one down.
From what I could tell when I was signing up for my $75 card, there wasn’t anything they could use to get me.
Today Wyndham told my cancellation was not accepted.
I’d fallen for the unexpected sales pitch in the “exit survey.”
I was doing okay up to that point, politely and repeatedly declining the original offer despite the fact my “60-90 minute seminar” was an intense one-on-one lasting about 2hrs. I was tired but stayed firm.
She said her job required me to do a brief exit survey about her work performance. I didn’t suspect another sales pitch at all.
Her manager came in and took me to another table in the same room. He spent a few minutes on “exit survey” type questions then launched his pitch. This offer was much cheaper and had no ongoing costs. I was tempted but very aware I’d already spent 2.5hrs stuck in a room with these people with no time to myself to think. I said I couldn’t make a decision without going out for a cigarette.
They couldn’t even let me have a quiet smoke on my own – they got another salesperson to escort me to an area behind the room where I couldn’t leave without going back through the salesroom. This salesperson spent the whole time raving about Wyndham. Of course.
I went back in and took the risk. I signed paper after paper. By the time we got to the one about the cooling off period I was exhausted and getting fairly desperate to leave. I slipped up here. Instead of reading it I joked “have I just signed away my right to a cooling off period?”
He laughed and said “no, don’t forget the whole thing doesn’t kick in for 12 days.”
12 days he said.
Not 12 day cooling off period though. Just 12 days.
The thing right in front of me that I’d just signed actually said “three calendar days.”
That was the 6th.
The next day I decided the package wasn’t for me and I would cancel it, but not until I got home because I didn’t want to deal with those people again.
I got home on the 9th. It was THEN I noticed the non-standard cooling off period. It was a Saturday. I signed it and put it in the post, hoping for the best.
I didn’t hear from them at all for several weeks. I hadn’t received the booking number thingy I was supposed to get within 12 days so I thought my cancellation must have gone through, but I hadn’t received my money back, either.
I spoke to them today to find out what was going on.
The first person I spoke to asked me if I’d send in my cancellation within 10 days. Oh yes, definitely.
The next person I spoke to said they hadn’t received it within the cooling off period. I asked him if they included postage time in their cooling off periods. He said no, it went from the day on the form. I told him the date on the form was within the cooling off period.
The next person said it wasn’t RECEIVED within the cooling off period so the cancellation isn’t accepted. Sorry.
I told them they’d been very pleasant and suggested they pass on some feedback to their superiors:
If you’re going to hold someone in a room for 3 hours until they break and include postage time in your cooling off period you really should offer the standard 10 days; but since you haven’t, I guess I’ll just have to take the holidays I paid for. This means I’ll be spending a fair bit of time in your resorts over the next 2 years, talking to people. That’s not very smart, is it?
Oh God. Evil triumphs again. Very sad.
Where is self righteous Elle now when we need her.
I too was conned into attending the Wyndhan timeshare scam. I was told there was no selling – it was just a presentation to show me how great there hotels were – and for my time I would get a $100 gift voucher – great!. It was awful – high pressure selling at it’s worst. At best the presentation was misleading, at worst it was blatantly dishonest. I was blown away when I questioned the manager about a pamphlet that acknowledged that at any time all of the perks of this package could be cancelled – without notice. He just lied, said it actually meant I could cancel any part of the package without notice…what???? I could go on and on and on about how predatory the whole thing was, when I got home and read the prospectus – that they didn’t let you read before asking you to sign up to a $95,000 package that they claimed was only $32,000 (???) – I was furious. I can NOT believe these people are allowed to operate. I want to put in a complaint to the authorities – my Mum told me not to bother, because these scams had been around for decades – despite the littany of complaints…lowest of the low selling scam.
We got scammed too! Someone needs to stop these bandits!!!!sac
Since they didn’t hold up their part of the bargain, I wonder what would have happened if you informed them that you weren’t going to attend the sales pitch.
That’s a good point.
I couldn’t get the voucher for the hotel we stayed in until after we sat in on the sales pitch.
If it ever happened again, I’d be so much more prepared.
So, in hindsight, would you take the hotel deal again knowing you weren’t interested in the timeshare?
I was just offered the same deal. $99 for a 4 night stay, a $100 hotel voucher and $75 Amex prepaid card. In exchange, I sit through a 2 hour hustle. I’m considering doing it even though I know there’s absolutely no way I would purchase the timeshare.
Anything I’m missing?
So, I was offered something similar. They said they will give me a $50 Amex card and a 3 night cruise if I go to a 2 hour presentation. Did you ever get the voucher for the hotel?
To answer bassbunch: No, we will not take another hotel deal again. The sales pitch was too intense, and the sales people are assholes frankly.
I have met several people who have done several of these trips and simply passed during the sales pitch.
Stephen: We got a $75 amex card and the voucher for the hotel stay. That was what I was originally promised.
If you’ve got brass balls, go on their trips and turn them down at the end.
Otherwise, my best recommendation is to keep taking vacations the way you have always taken them.
Couldn’t agree more. Wish I had under stood how this worked before we got sucked in. I feel like such a sucker now.:-(
Never done the timeshare vacation thing, but I had the similar high pressure scam happen to me at Direct Buy. We got an “invite” from someone who was a member, a friend of a friend.
Same “deal is only good for today”, same “if you leave, you lose”, it really turned me off. I was allowed to look at their catalogs for a few minutes, but not long enough to make an educated decision. I work in sales, I saw what was happening, I basically told them to go f@#% themselves.
The problem is that it works for them all too often…
Just attended a presentation by Wyndham on surfers paradise on Gold coast and boy how rude the sales person was !!! have never met any worse sales person in my life then this guy called FRANK. He kept making racial jokes as how whole world is owned by bloody chines and Indians. Kept in saying he is the director there and has multimillion dollar property portfolio (made me wonder what was he doing there then?)…and once I told him firmly that I was not interested at all he was lieraly pushing me around physically… I guess first they lure people in with the idea of FREE GIFT but people end up paying either financially or emotionally much more than they bargained for!!! People beware of Whyndham vaccation resorts presentation!!!
Mike
Just went to a presentation at Kirra, Gold Coast, Australia. We got given whale watching vouchers worth $200 to go to an ‘obligation free seminar’, that was supposed to be just a video and only 90mins.
We got a one on one table with a supposedly lovely sales woman (3 x photos of family, fiancee blah, blah, ). The video was only 10mins, the rest of the high pressure pitch was 3 hours long. Afterward we said we needed to take a look at the package at home, we then got 3 more different sales people over a period of an hour (all with different BRIBES) to get us to sign up BEFORE we left.
Being in busines we would never sign up without analysing something for days/weeks/months.
I feel very sorry for the weaker people who are definitly going to get STUNG with this lifetime ongoing payment to their RIP OFF company.
There was also a plan to pay it off over 10 years at 13%, I say again 13%, that is DISGRACEFUL, and worse than some credit cards.
DO NOT FALL FOR THE WYNDAM SCAM, SCAM, SCAM….!!
The ‘deals’ come in points, 12000 points was going to cost approx $35000, you can imagine how much this works out to be over 10 years with 13% interest!!!
Once this is paid for there is still an ‘UPKEEP’ charge of $860 a year !!! FOR LIFE and this goes up approx 5% a year!!
12000 points worked out to be only 1 week high season and 2 weeks low season at most resorts etc!! So as you can imagine the $30000-$60000 payment and the $850+ per year is a TOTAL RIPOFF, imagine what holidays you can get for this sort of outlay staying at deals etc you can track down yourself!!!!
DON’T FALL FOR THE SCAM PEOPLE, just get the freebee’s and get the HELL out of there… The sales people have the HUMAN condition worked out, and they’re clever, just BE STRONG and DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for leaving your story here. I’m hoping to collect these stories, and do what I can to help others from falling for Wyndham’s sales pitch.
Best!
My husband and I fell for this scam and now we are stuck with repayments we can’t afford
Jeremy,
thanks for sharing your story. I just went through the whole presentation myself, and even though I told my wife we wouldn’t buy, we actually convinced ourselves that this was a great deal. We were buying in the timeshare in the National Harbor, and everything looked great, until we started researching how much our “vacation” would actually cost us….since there is nothing but hotel stays, the plane, activities and everything else still extra. So now we are paying $24,000 upfront, on top of $700 maintenance fees, and still get to spend $3-4 thousand for the travel, etc.
We actually had Lamont (D. Zachmann) as well ,and Rhonda Hamilton. Rhonda wasn’t very experienced, but Lamont is very seasoned. Randy something gave the presentation, and wow—what showmanship!!! We were supposed to meet Rhonda today at the Harbor but when I called to verify, she seemed to have forgotten–oh oh!
So I googled: “Wyndham timeshare nightmares”, and holy smokes, I was frightened at how many folks have had bad experiences. So I called Randy, Rhonda, and Lamont to ask about canceling the contract. Randy said that wasn’t his department, Rhonda said she needed to get Lamont, and Lamont never called back. When I started calling Rhonda and Lamont, neither one would answer.
So I called the finance department in VA, which is closed at 430PM. I ended contacting the one in Las Vegas, and he read me my Virginia rights. The person on the phone was very courteous, and told me to fax my cancellation notice to 702-227-3298. VA states that the buyer has seven days to make the cancellation, so I know the sales team is waiting for next Monday to give me a call. So much for customer service eh!
Anyway, since I now don’t trust anyone associated with this program, I sent a certified express letter, and called my attorney to make sure we are in the clear.
We got a voucher for a $50 discount on meals, and a week stay at a hotel in return for the presentation. The discounts are for crappy restaurants in my area that I would’ve never visited in the first place. I am not even going to bother with the hotel stay, since I want to put this whole thing behind me.
Your blog helped me get out of a big mistake, thank you!
I am a Wyndham timeshare owner. I bought in about 15 years ago. I own 500,000 points. I agree with the comments about high pressure, intimidation, lies and more. It is worse today than when I bought years ago. The thing is, just tell them “NO” if you don’t like the deal and the situation. I used to argue with them, get up and walk out. There is nothing they can do about it. Some of the sales people are fine and treat you very well, but many are not. If you are treated poorly, leave or ask for their boss. They hate that. A Wyndham sales person told me that out of 100 people, maybe 10 will attend a presentation. Out of that ten, maybe one person may buy. That’s not too many real customers that pay the sales department. The sad thing is if Wyndham did things different and treated their future owners and existing owners better, these things would sell themselves. We use the timeshare a lot and we enjoy it. I know I could not stay in a comparable motel for what I spend on my yearly maintenance fee, comparing day for day. There are many ways I can book on line and save when I make reservations. My wife and I have stayed up to 12 weeks a year on our points. No cost, other than our food and transportation. The timeshare works even better since we have retired. We can go whenever we please and make last minute reservations, which saves us points, 35%. The truth is, any type of traveling will cost you money. Whether you by a motor home, vaction home, travel trailor or live in motels, you will spend money. The thing I have discovered is that many people that purchase timeshares don’t use them. They pay maintenance fees and complain. They could even rent their timeshare. It’s a waste if you don’t travel and use it. The resorts are very nice and the people who work there treat you like you are best friends. Much different than most of the sales department folks do.
I agree with Rich, they can be demanding, but a simple flat NO, with no more discussion ends the discussion. in fact, you can call the main office and complain, i have done that four times now and those people no longer work at the place we go to quite regularly. Time shares can be holes in your wallet, just have to be smart, understand the whole deal, USE IT also, we take two weeks a year to go to where ever we want to go, its worth every dime, but you can screw yourself if you are not careful. Just look at ALL sales people as con artist and even tell them that if needed, I have, it works, they back off fast. My wife and I have been members for 5 years. We love it
Hey, you have a great blog here! I’m definitely going to bookmark you!
I am doing research on an article that I am writing on reported alleged
scammed customers by Ramada Hotels and Hotel.com reservaion system.
If you have any things that you think should be included in my report you
can just follow the link an use the subscribe page to submit your information.
Thank you for your time .
Hey, you have a great blog here! I’m definitely going to bookmark you!
I am doing research on an article that I am writing on reported alleged
scammed customers by Ramada Hotels and Hotel.com reservaion system.
If you have any things that you think should be included in my report you
can just follow the link to BS-Index.com an use the subscribe page to submit
your information.http://www.BS-Index.com
Thank you for your time .
It will pretty much covers Hotel Scam related stuff.
Come and check it out if you get time
Regrettably I am a Wyndham owner. I paid cash for my ownership and have the privilege of paying them $346 per month for the foreseeable future and that amount will go up. I do use the timeshare but would love to get out of it. Wyndham does not offer a buyback program and there are not many takers even if I give it away.
I call Wyndham the Hotel California because “you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave”.
William
At least you bought an actual timeshare.We didn’t have a clue about these freebies and presentations and were stupid enough to go to one.We did say no repeatedly and said we neither could afford or even want a timeshare but walked out 5 hours later with a package we could afford.The stack of papers we signed as they explained what we were buying was too big for us to read through and we just wanted out of there.We were told we could roll over our small package to the next year and use it every other year.What we got is a timeshare access and are told it is useless because we can’t roll the points over.The only way to make use of it is to buy a bigger package.They are taking payments off of our credit card for a year now for something we can’t use and when we said we are going to stop the payments they said it would ruin our credit.We are going to talk to a lawyer as we are from Canada and need to find out if it will ruin our credit.I can’t believe we were so stupid!
Hi Sue,
I am also a Canadian who recently purchased and been lied to during the sales pitch. I’d like to get in contact with you. Were you able to cancel?
Thanks!
me too i would like to hear if you had any luck in cancelling
Yes. Just recently. Unfortunately I can’t find her e-mail adress but contact Peggy Cecere. Executive Resolution Liason. Owner Care. Wyndham Vacation Resorts Inc. Best of luck my friend.
I am also a Canadian who recently purchased a timeshare in Hawaii. We found out we had 7 days to rescind it.. So, we quickly sent and faxed letters to get the contract rescinded one day after we purchased the timeshare. The salespeople never told us about the possibility of cancelling our contract. The form was amongst a pile of forms. Luckily, we didn’t take the advice of the salesperson to have our forms and resort books sent to us. Otherwise, we would have missed the rescission date deadline.
I just hope and pray that the rescission will go through without any problem. I have read many forums regarding rescission, and as long as the letter is postmarked within the rescission period, then I should be fine. (We have sent 3 faxes, 3 regular mails and 3 registered mails. An overkill, but it ensures us that they would receive our cancellation forms.)
However, my worries now is that in reading a previous thread on this site, one owner’s cancellation request was rejected b/c the it was not RECEIVED within the cooling off period. And letters sent from Canada to the US can take longer then 7 days, and deliveries are not done on stat holidays.
So now, if it is based not on postmark but the date it was received, then I’m totally screwed!
We finally got out of ours because the points they sold us were so few that we couldn’t even use them. I e-mailed every head honcho at wyndham in florida including customer care. Finally I got a reply. After a few months and many e-mails I was free of it and also got a refund. Contact Peggy Cecere,executive resolution liason, owner care. Wyndham vacation resorts inc. Best of luck!!Sorry I can’t find her e-mail adress. If I do I will post it.
You managed to get out of your contract (after rescission period)? That is so wonderful to hear! I’ve read numerous forums, and so many people have been scammed and can’t get out of their contract. But I have also read that if you tell them (Wyndham) you can no longer afford this due to financial hardship, they would cancel your contract. (Not sure whether this can actual happen, or if it does, it’ll probably takes months and more payment to get out of it.)
Thanks for replying so quickly.
Just would like to say thankyou for the post. My wife and i just made 120 bucks in 30 minutes. Just go in And be strong. I told em I was there for the money and that’s it. They even let us go early. Knew we couldn’t be broken. Cheers. Oh and they baby sat our kids..
lol, love it…good on ya
SPOT ON. They are after your money and they go to great lengths to get it. Once they know that you are not in for the buy, they get nasty and intimidating.
They wouldn’t allow us to leave until we got ‘signed out’!!!
They still had the nerve to call me….they are down right abusive and have no shame in invading your privacy.
Glorified beggers…
FYI
W5, a Canadian investigative reports show (similar to 60 Minutes) will air a show about timeshare scams tomorrow, March 24 @7PM.
You can watch it online if you live outside Canada. It promises to be good!
Program was good but still dont know how to get out of my vegas nightmare crimeshare!
Thanks everyone for their continued support and responses to this post.
It continues to get many hits per day and I hope that it’s helping others not make the same choice to fall for Wyndham’s dirty sale’s tactics.
It’s too bad that you have to get through a sales meeting to know what you’re in for.
It is a crime share. I have done everything to get rid of it. It’s free if anyone wants it… I would sign it over in a heartbeat. Location… Orlando, 10 minutes from Disney World at Star Island…
What exactly do you own Claudia? And how much do you owe?
I went to a presentation a couple days ago because I had time to kill for the $80.00 AMEX card offered. Program looked good but I had the feeling they were not telling me the whole program and cost. I stayed strong and said no. Funny that they wanted to know why I spent 2 hours of my vacation at there presentation if I was not going to buy?? I explained it was an easy way to make $40.00 per hour. They tried to make me feel bad but I knew they had already taken several people that day for there hard earned money. After the presentation I wanted to know more because I thought the program might be good….searched internet and found way to many stories like on the blog.
Thanks for sharing your story.
I hope this blog is helping more people, too.
It gets several hundred hits a week, so I know people are reading it.
Cheers
Thank you for taking the time to educate us, I’ve received several calls from Linda Scwartz in orlando representing Wyndham, she gave me all the info and said “don’t google it” sure glad I did, we won’t waste our time. Thanks again Jeremy! Anne
Thank you a LOT mate for the word of warning.
Unfortunately i found your blog after being to presentation at Australia (Sydney), but at least i didn’t buy anything.
I just been to presentation , referred to by my “friend”.
At first I thought that it was a good deal, but i was suspicious as salesperson did not want to answer some of my financial questions. So whole presentation i was thinking ….hmm so where is their side of profit in this. And by the end when main rep who was trying to sell me a timeshare disclosed that i would have to pay annual fees, and $38000 for 7000 Creds per year. I realised that they not just making a profit due to number of their clients. They RIP people OFF on a legendary scale, and so I said no.
Whole thing went down exactly as you described, i mean EXACTLY the same way of selling their timeshare, and exactly same reaction when declined.
After i got home and googled it up. I realised how lucky I am, as 15 other people in room signed up. Only i didnt buy it, sales reps were THAT good. They even went as far as providing some of people with alcoholic drinks to cloud their thinking.
I reckon my friend should have told me “if u go, dont even THINK of signing anything!!!!!!”
Oh well, still made a $100 buck, feel sorry for other guys in a room tho.
you are a smart man, I on the other hand gave in and ended up with what I like to call a crimeshare nightmare.Still throwing money every month and can’t even use it.
I placed an entry to win a BMW in a shopping mall. Well, turns out it was wyndham people who got those cards and called me with the info. They keep calling and asking me to come to the presentation. I didn’t like the sound of it. So I just let them take as long as possible to give their sales pitch over the phone, making confirmations for me and my wife to show up. Then I simply don’t go. One month later a different csr calls and schedules me again. I ask alot of questions and waste as much of their time as I can(I was riding in a car anyway). Then, I blow it off. If I can keep them on the phone, that’s one less victim they can call. Now that I’ve seen these complaints here, I will double my efforts.
wish we would have been as smart as you
Predators prey on the vulnerable. People are vulnerable when they have hope and trust that they will be treated fairly. This makes the predators even more despicable.
the problem with all of these reviews is no one here has actually used the product my family has owned wyndam for years and it’s the best thing we could of done it works exactly how they say it does. al of you guys just decided it was a scam before you actually saw what they can do for you. you said no be cause you thought you were beating them at there own game when in fact you guys are the ones that lost out! there are two sides to every story.
I call bullshit.
One, you’re either illiterate or an idiot, because there are people on this thread who bought into the scam.
And two, you sound like an insider trying to sway votes.
That’s like holding up an oozing piece of shit and saying, “See, it doesn’t stink.”
Not to mention, your grammar and spelling is atrocious.
Jeremy, I was enjoying reading your blog until this post. I was going to go to a Wyndam pitch myself. My sister in law owns points, goes on trips each year, and has also invited my wife and I along at a much more reduced rate than what we would have had if we would have booked it ourselves. In the above response you not only insult the writer but then call him out on his spelling. You sound like you could make a really good sales rep. for Wyndam from what I read in your post and many others. How do we readers not know that this blog is a scam? Maybe you’re from a competitor and are just trying to bash Whyndam. I doubt it, but then I doubt that Jeff is an illiterate idiot just because he had a better experience than you and chose to write about it on your blog. Food for thought.
Maybe you should try going to one of the sales pitch meetings with your wife, Taras. When your finished, then come back to us and let us know how it went.
I believe he was being called illiterate because he was apparently unable to read all of the horrible first hand experiences written in plain English on this blog for all to see.
Good day sir.
You are so right!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry buddy but you aren’t listening to what is happening.We too were sold a package in Vegas and they have been taking payments off of our credit card for over a year now on a package we cannot even use because there isn’t enough points to ever use it. Still trying to make this nightmare go away. So don’t think for one second this is funny because it’s not. These phony crimeshares are ruining people financially and these assholes should be arrested.
Sue, if you belong to RCI or II you can probably deposit your points with them and get a vacation unit somewhere.
Sue, obviously you are angry that you purchased something and now regret your purchase. We own points through Wyndam, formerly Fairfield. We do not have enough points for a full week either but if you would take the time to go on the Internet, or look at your Wyndam or RCI book you will find you can use your points. We just were at the Grand Desert in Las Vegas. We had a beautiful two bedroom, two bath, full kitchen, and small living room for four days. Of course you have to get to your vacation spot and pay for transportation….but everyone has to do that to travel.
We have been to Orlando, Williamsburg, Edisto Island, WorldMark Angels Camp…..and been pleased with all of our accommodations.
I hate the presentations but sometimes go just to get the money or vouchers. I look at it like a game.
Stop complaining about them taking your money every month, after all you bought it!! Spend some time learning how to use it.
You are right Jeff. There are two sides. That’s why you should take what others have written as the truth about what they have experienced. I too have owned Wyndham for a long time. My first experience with their sales folks went very well and they were very honest about what I was buying. That was about 13 years ago. As an owner I have sat in on no less than a dozen sales pitches since then and I can tell you that everyone of them contained at least some level of “half truth’s” and many presented out right lies. And when I would point out their misrepresentations I was hurried out of the area and shown the way out without a hand shake or a thank you. The points I bought then were supposed to get me a 7 night in a 2 BR High season unit anywhere in the system. Now I’m lucky to get a 1 BR in moderate season. Bottom line is that I belive your experience, and I believe all these others. Out of all the sales presentations I’ve attended only one was above board. And I rarely find unit availability in the Wyndham system when I want to take a vacation. Forget about going to the beach in the summer of skiing in the winter. Take care
There seem to be more negative comments than positive comments about timeshares. I would not get involved in something that would cause me distress financially or mentally. Think first before acting.
My husband and I just purchased a timeshare while in Vegas last week. We were approached by very pushy salesmen. I was not totally sold, but my husband insisted we purchase since our deal was “too good to be true”. We MADE SURE that when we signed the contract in “WRITING” that we would be given 308,000 points to use within a 2 year period, but, we paid $500 down, and we were also told in “WRITING” that we must pay a remaining $620 dollar BEFORE we can start using those points. And we signed a 2 year contract. We were also given many discount coupons for car rentals, tires, resturants, etc.
Since we have everything in “WRITING” with our contract should we still be concerned? Aren’t there laws against NOT fulfilling a binding contract either way?
Just like any real estate loan. If you don’t pay they will foreclose on you and ruin your credit. Even if your loan is paid off they will foreclose for not paying the annual fees. So I hope you like what you purchased. The big point bonus in the beginning of the contract is to make it seem like you are getting more vacation than you really are. If it has been less than 7 days since you purchased you still may be able to cancel. Think about it. If you like Wydham vacations you can purchase points from people looking to sell (dirt cheap). Good luck.
My husband and I experienced the “Wyndham Way” last Sunday. The sales lady was very friendly but was evasive when we asked “how much is this going to cost”? We spent an exhausting 2 hours listening to the sales pitch, watching the presentation and meeting 2 managers that could not answer my question of ” what happens if you get ill or lose your job or just if your not able to book the hotel you like as it is always booked out? The managers told me that I would have to talk to another team within the company regarding selling my share to get out of the scheme but were very vague about it. The sales lady told me to book 13 months ahead to get the resort I wanted! Nothing was mentioned about what you would do if you lost your job or were too ill to work. I am assuming they would keep collecting money from you and good luck on selling your timeshare.
When we finally got the figures we were shocked. It was about $36K to be a member (a little bit more). The you paid $875 (from memory) every year plus the payment plan for the $36K, plus booking fee $199, plus cleaning fee $70. We both thought the deal was absolutely ridiculous. When she saw we were not going to sign up she got angry and threw her paperwork on the table and said “fill this contact sheet up because I need to make my commission!”
Her manager then sat down with us and offered us “another wonderful deal” but we were disgusted with the previous sales persons tantrum that we declined this one as well and then this female manager had her tantrum as well. What a professional company! She said “heres your voucher” in a very spiteful way (the gift voucher we were promised by sitting through the torture). We left the office and the first sales lady gave us a very unfriendly look and when I said goodbye she turned her back on me. Nice one Wyndham you must teach your timeshare staff to behave in this way as it seems to be consistent with what I have read in other comments. Why would anyone buy in and financial support this company?
Every person that I have have spoken to re Wyndham (2 family members and 3 friends) that has been treated to the “Wyndham Way” and give a similar story of pushy sales pitch and disgusting spiteful behaviour towards them when they have refused to sign up.
If you are unfortunate enough to be a member then I am sorry you no matter how much you try and sugar coat it and say how wonderful it is. If you love Wyndham Timeshare then you condone this disgusting behaviour. I am absolutely relieved that we did not buy their timeshare. Wyndham should be ashamed of their practices and disgusting behaviour.
Kind Regards
Mrs Walsh
yes you were very smart We weren’t!!!
I totally agree about being put through hell for 6 hrs. We were promised a free breakfast, 3 night get a way and a 4 day cruise and a $50 visa card so we went. I will never ever go to any time share presentation again. The man had me in tears and blasted me when my husband got up to got to the bathroom. Called me a very selfish woman and how could I not want this wonderful opportunity for my family and I should be ashamed of myself!!! Needless to say it was over right then and there!!! Thanks so much Tim from the wyndham family at Wilderness in the smokies in Tennesse. I am still trying to recover from this experience that just happend to me this week.
Thank you everyone for continuing to share your stories.
No one should sit through these aggressive, disgusting and absurd sales tactics.
I believe this post and others out there are making a big difference for others.
Google and the Internet will eventually force Wyndham to shut down or clean up their act.
I don’t understand why an undercover reporter doesn’t investigate these criminals. I have forwarded this blog to everyone I know. Maybe I will forward it to some news reporters. Evil must be defeated. I can only imagine what kind of training these people are given. What do the trainers say to them? “Lie. Say whatever you have to to get them to come to the presentation. Then we will lie to them and pressure them when they are most vulnerable.”. I’m sure there is a wonderful Wyndham timeshare in hell for these people. They won’t be able to get out of it as well.
I totally agree. You said it all!
Just returned from Myrtle Beach, & endured the Wyndham spiel. After 4 hours, we finally left with the promised “gifts.” I felt like I had spent time in Dante’s Inferno.
Yesterday I filed an on-line complaint with the Better Business Bureau (http://www.bbb.org). I was surprised that there were no other complaints listed within the last 3 years.
Have had a similar experience, same gifts same drill, but after filling out the form at their office before the free breakfast we were told we were short the $$ of our combined income, we told them that we explained that to the people when they begged us to sign up for the free tour etc, they wasted our time and they marketing skills suck, I agree its a scam and they grabbed us while on vacation in Las Vegas just Wed. When they first approached us they said we are entitled to free promotions and prizes for being new to the Hotel. Bull Crap.
I’m a bit confused by your story. I’ve sat through the pitch and agree with most of what you said. But, if your story is accurate, the “grandma” never told you it wasn’t a sales pitch. Your question was does “the presentation obligated me to buy something…?”. She said no. Everything else is true, too. They hope you’ll tell your friends, etc. She didn’t lie. You just read what you wanted into her answer. Deceptive? Maybe. But literally truthful.
You got me on semantics. I also asked her if there was any kind of sales of any kind. My admission that everything was lies insinuated that what she told me was in fact false.
I really despise people who argue semantics when they know damn well what the point is.
@Madmarmot – Despise is a strong word…but there I go, semantics again. IMHO, semantics are important if you are going to call someone a liar. You’ll note I respectfully pointed out the issue and allowed the OP to clarify. Isn’t that good discourse?
I’ll be honest, I have trouble thinking anyone would go into this situation without at least the suspicion that it was going to be a sales pitch. None of that is said to justify the tactics and techniques they use.
Your last sentence exposes you and therefore nullifies your entire argument for the purposes of this forum. The entire purpose of this blog is for people to vent their frustration at the people of Wyndham timeshares. It appears you are in the wrong forum. As far as defining liars goes, don’t forget omission is lying as well. I don’t believe anyone was told up front about the Gestapo sales tactics that were about to be excersized upon them.
To my defense, I talked more about the grandma later that used more detail about her dishonesty.
CCharon, I imagine trying to discredit this story is your way of puffing your chest.
Clearly, you aren’t aware of how this business works. And that you’re trying to undermine how shrewd I am as a successful business owner and a person, I resent that and consider it a shitty method of discourse.
I was too kind to you CCharron.
You’re an asshole.
Despise was completely appropriate.
Do work with Wyndham?
I can revise my story, as it’s editable. You clearly aren’t here to be constructive. You didn’t want clarification. You wanted to point out weakness.
The story remains. The grandma lied.
Wyndham is a scam.
And you will continue being a jerk.
Good luck with that.
Wow, you are right, my mistake. I was looking for thoughtful opinions about this topic. I didn’t realize it was a “vent regardless of facts” and “name calling” blog. I’m not sure what sort of discussion requires you to make personal attacks when someone questions your facts as stated.
Jeremy, what part of you acknowledgment of your clarification did you take exception with? At what point did I in any way question your skills as a business person?
@Madmarmot…I know NLP, too. Nice try! I can both agree with the gist of the post AND disagree with a specific fact pattern presented. Yes, omission is lying but only if intentionally lying. I would assume since he asked if he was obligated to buy he had some idea that there would be a sales pitch. But since OP clarified that he DID actually ask the question, the point is moot.
I’ll politely remove myself from following this blog since it clearly isn’t about rational conversation and thought.
You have to contribute something to be considered a contributor.
It is the common path of he who is wrong to run from the conversation.
My wife and I had a great experience at a Wyndham sales presentation. The sales person was friendly and low pressure for sure. When we were trying to decide whether to buy or not the manager came in. He seemed very personable also. He even hooked us up with a great ski vacation. So it came down to one factor of the sale for us. If they agreed we’d buy. If not we’d part company on good terms. Well they said yes, even though we were buying points to use every OTHER year we would have certain privelages every year.
Well it took 2 years to figure out that both the salesperson and the manager had lied to us about the privelages. So I called the corporate office and asked for a complete refund based on the fact I was lied to. Of course they turned me down. So I went back to the offices where we made the purchase. Our salesperson was now the manager. When I told her my problem she said the manager was recently fired for unethical practices. Like that should make it all better. She said, “here’s what I can do”. I was thinking, great, she is going to help me! Ha ha. She rolls into a sales pitch to explain that if I spend $20,000 more, I’ll get the privelages I was promised before. And as a current owner I qualified for a 10% discount! She said all this with a big smile.
Yes, I know for a fact she was a LIAR!!
The story does eventually end well though. Since I did save every scrap of paper from the sale, the notes I had made and the welcome packet I was given at the time of the sale I had enough evidence of the lies that the corporate office refunded my money. But it took a total of about 3 and a half years to do it.
My wife and I do own other timeshare and have been on dozens of tours, several with Wyndham. So I’ll offer some tips if you care to read on.
Tip # 1) All purchases, even the $99 weekend getaways have a grace period. Depending on the state I’ve seen them from 3 to 10 days. So when booking a weekend carefully read the confirmation. If the person on the phone said you would be in a resort and the confirmation says hotel, call the 800 # and cancel. If they can’t gurantee you staying in the resort thaey will likely sweeten the pot with more or better gifts to get you to not cancel.
Tip #2) Once you are in the presentation with the salesperson, of course you should be cordial, but do not offer any more information about yourself and family than you have to. When asked how many kids you have just state the # and that they are wonderful children. Don’t talk about college, athletics, honors or anything that is an opening for them to discuss their children. And under no circumstances should you ever ask the salesperson a personal question. You just added 15 minutes to the presentation and gave him the opening he needs to get you to like him/her. They want to build a raport to the point where you will feel bad about saying no.
Tip #3) If asked to fill out a survey of the things you like to do on vacation, BE BRIEF! Remember you are using up YOUR time! And don’t say your “dream vacation” is some far off paradise like Hawaii or Australia. They will show you that on your current track you will never get their without buying Timeshare. Especially Wyndham since you can now use points to buy airplane tickets and all kinds of travel stuff.
Tip #4) When touring the resort don’t ask questions. It just adds time to the tour. Oh yeah, I can say from experience that it is on the tour when you start to picture yourself there by the pool or on the golf course thinking that maybe this is the right thing for us at this time…Hmmm.
Tip#5) When you see the price don’t be afraid to show “shock”. Put pride aside and say unhesitantly “There is no way we can buy that”. Don’t apologize and don’t say “if I didn’t have this” going on or “if I was more sure about my job”. These are objections that these salepeople are very well trained to overcome.
Tip #6) This works on some salespeople but not many. It is worth a try though. When it works it’s a beautiful thing. You go in and say, (cordially of course), we don’t want any doughnuts, we don’t want to get comfortable. If we’re here more than a half hour we’ll have to bring our kids in. We came for the prize so tell me the least we have to do to get them and get out of your hair. “I hate to waist your time when I know we can’t buy anything”. Some times they will take you straight to the gift desk so they can pick up someone else who may be more likely to buy.
And lastly tip # 7) As I staed before. If you couldn’t bring yourself to say no to the nice salesperson and you regrettfully purchased something. Or if you intentionally bought because it sounded great while at Myrtle Beach but being home in Detroit you have second thoughts, Every state has a grace period within which you can cancel your purchase with a 100% refund. No questions asked. So don’t be afraid to go out there and have some fun with the nice salespeople out there that are selling paradise everyday!
I got a phone call from WHYNDHAM today about free gift vacation without any obligation to buy it, but looking at this reviews I’m not gonna go..thank you guys for sharing your experience…
You are making the right decision.
Thanks for leaving this quick response. It’s good to know this post is still making a difference.
All timeshares have good and bad, just like buying a cabin in the woods. I think it is more difficult to get to vacation where you want to go. People who plan a year ahead do well…but we don’t so it is more difficult. We have enjoyed all of our timeshare vacations as the facilities are usually very nice. We like having a kitchen when we travel. I feel most timeshares are maintained and cleaned better than most hotels, yes, even the very high priced ones!
We travel a variety of ways, cruises, motor home, and our timeshare has just added to the variety we have.
Only buy at a top rated timeshare…..Wyndam is the largest and they own RCI. They have many Worldmarks in their system which we like.
Again, I agree that the marketing leaves a whole lot to be desired but in all honesty some of the postings seem more to let off steam than to reasonably discuss the pros and cons……and there are a lot of cons…..monthly maintainence costs for the rest of your life is no small thing. As you age and cannot use your points it becomes a desperate search to try to get rid of it in some fashion. This is why it is a luxury……as retired folks we have less available cash and I make sure we use our points so they are not wasted….it makes us get out and explore which is good!
Dear Elaine, You obviously did not read the whole story. We also stayed at Grand Desert in May. We used our points and our extra gift points. That’s the only reason we could go. When we arrived THEY are the ones that told us we were sold a bogus package and couldn’t roll our points over as originally promised as 64000 aren’t enough to go every year. Yes we intended to go every 2 years. Yes the place was beautiful. I don’t dispute that. The issue is that we couldn’t roll the points over like they said we could. Now they said we had to use them every year which we didn’t have enough points to do. Have you looked into RCI or anywhere to see how many points it takes to go anywhere? 64000 points wouldn’t even get me 2 nights at Banff National Park which is driving distance for me. I hope now you get it. We were new to this whole thing and they are good at what they do. Bottom line. You weren’t there!
I’m just about out of my timeshare after $1,000′s ripped off from my family .. Wyndham Fairfield Points system – FRAUD. Took writing many letters and posting the TRUTH everywhere.. attorneys and other entities.. IF YOU KNOW THE CHEAPEST AND SMARTEST WAY OUT of this timeshare .. let me know in case this latest contract cancellation requests does not go through. THANKS
You obviously must have gotten someone to listen to you.I’ve been doing the same thing as you for months. Finally someone from florida contacted me and said they were going to review my cancellation request.I didn’t believe it. Couple more months go by and i got a phone call saying it is done.My timeshare is cancelled! I still didn’t believe it until the other day when i looked at both of my credit card statements and they actually applied a portion of my money back to my credit cards as that’s how they were taking payments.Hang in there my friend. At least they are considering it and it does take a long time.There is an angel out there that works for Wyndham in Florida. If i can still find out what her name was I will be thanking her. Try to be patient and good luck.
Also I wish the Powers That Be at Wyndham would realize how beautiful their resorts really are and there are plenty of people who can really afford it that would be happy to buy legit timeshares from them. These pushy,crooked,lying salespeople that work for them are ruining it for everyone,including Wyndham. So sad!
Sue and Elaine
I dpon’t know if you bought points that trade with RCI as points or weeks. My Wyndham points trade with RCI as weeks. With RCI weeks 64,000 points can be deposited as 2 studio slow3 season weeks. I know, you don’t want to go in slow seaso. But with RCI, once you are within 45 days of your travel date those weeks trade as good as any other week. You can get a 1, 2, 3 BR if it’s available. It’s risky but my family has had several great vacations at beautiful resorts using the 45 day strategy. We’ve even traded right back into the Wyndham system.
I know that a lot of people are pulled into timeshare ownership through unethical practices. And it is a shame they didn’t get out of them while they could. But if you spend the time to get to know how the system works you will get some return on your investment.
Good luck
Thanks Nick. I appreciate the tips. Wish I knew half as much as you do about how these things work. Too bad they don’t explain these things to you right off the bat instead of pressuring you into buying more on your first day there. As I said before they were the ones that told us that our points package never should’ve been sold to us and the people involved were fired. When the pressure was on to give them many thousands of dollars more to make it right we got scared. Well it’s too late now. Just found out ours has been cancelled even with a partial refund. It took a lot of months to go through the process but in the end Wyndham found that we were right. Thanks again for the comment.
I hope you are satisfied with the partial refund you got. You’ve done better than most. Overall my family has gotten a lot out of the timeshare industry. Don’t let Wyndham scare you off completely. A wise person once told me to find a resort that is close enough to drive to and that has amenities for the whole family. That way you plan to use it more than trade it. Even RCI, the trading company, tells you in the front of their book not to rely on trading your unit. So anyway I took the advise and bought a timeshare in the Shenandoah area of VA that we have enjoyed for over 10 years now. And we’re not bored with it yet. Best thing is the maint fee is about $325. We have traded it a couple of times and it traded very well.
Just don’t buy Wyndham. It will take ten years to figure out what you have.
Totally agree. Hope you and your family continue to enjoy!
All the above comments have merit – the fact remains though that the Wyndham Product is a legitimate product.
There are high pressure dodgy sales people in a majority of companies – their personal selling style is reflective of their inability to create an emotional connection with their clients and identify the aspects of the product that would suit the specific needs of the client – this is sales in general.
Regardless of the company or product many people can get caught up in the heat of the moment and feel pressured into buying something – but you should not blame other people for your inability to say no…
The Wyndham product is legitimate and probably not suitable for people that do not holiday regularly – or see investing finances into holidaying as holding any value ( everyone has different ideas of what is valuable and meaningful for them).
Your buying into a lifestyle club… Could you find better deals yourself on the internet, get cheaper prices and not pay a maintenance fee – absolutely, but the membership provides a service to people so they don’t have to do those thing themselves… they have a client services department that takes care of everything for your conveniently – if you don’t like ATM fees go into the bank and wait in line at the few available branch locations. I personally don’t have a gripe with ATM fees that banks charge because I like the convenience of being able to draw money out from virtually any location I choose at any time I desire – so I see the value in the ATM fee – convenience and I cannot stand people that whinge about – it’s simple don’t use the service you have a choice, just don’t do it…if you do not understand this correlation then that is probably why you have not been able to understand the Wyndham product
Once again – do not blame other people for your inability to say no and then purchasing a product that didn’t suit your needs or fit into your definition of what is valuable to you.
All those negative people need to ask themselves why are they getting so defensive??? Here’s a revelation for you for free – your really angry at yourself…no – one held a gun to your head when you signed up, you can actually walk away at any time??? and after you left you have slowly come to the realisation (even if its only in your subconscious) that it was within your control to not sign up but were too weak to do so…
We are the only ones that control our actions and make our decisions….don’t blame McDonalds for making you fat – you chose to go in and order from the menu – we could blame their advertising techniques to get the kids in…but really parents are the ones that make the decisions for the kids…just say no….wow, see the underlying pattern of the blame game humans play.
Thanks
What’s awesome about your response is how much bullshit you laid down in eight paragraphs.
Seriously? ATM charges are okay because they are convenient?
Are you brainwashed?
Paying money to access your money is great!
I don’t buy into one ounce of your justification for Wyndham. And if you represent them, you’re a lousy ambassador for their cause.
Well said Jeremy. Not everyone is as educated on crimeshares as she is. In the real world there are people like me who cares for dementia patients for a living and cleans up piss and shit 12 hours a day. I have to save big time to go on a vacation. Frankly I am tired of repeating myself. These salespeople are good at what they do!!!!! My husband is in sales and even he fell for it. Wtf don’t these people understand??????? OMG!!!
Ella, you are full of shit. If you really read the complaints you would see we are talking about sales people who LIE to get you into a situation where you are pressured by intimidation and harassment over a two to four hour period, which, in my opinion is not unlike psychological interrogation. They also isolate you in a sales confinement area where the customer is outnumbered, uncomfortable and UNABLE TO LEAVE. This is not about personal responsibility. In McDonald’s, one has the option to leave the building AND you know what is on the menu and how much it will cost you. So take your bullshit and shove it up your ass.
Ella,
I have to throw the yellow flag on your defense of these sales folks. People don’t say “NO” because they are promised things that are not true. Yes, they are LIED to. Here’s an easy one. They tell you that buying a Time SHare that is rated as a “Gold Crown” resort gives you the most trading power that you can get when trading in RCI. This is a blatant lie because when you want to use your points to make an RCI trade, Wyndham manages which points are given to RCI to make the trade. If you own a summer week at Myrtle Beach Wyndham will give RCI a week in Branson or Williamsburg and keep your Myrtle Beach time to rent out at top price.
So Ella you can tell folks to “just say no” but that arguement is indefensible as long as the sales folks continue to lie about their product.
Ella, We call what you are saying “Blaming the victim”.
on the contrary….my point was you can resist being brainwashed…
I didn’t say paying ATM fees was great, I merely highlighted the meaning of their existence…you clearly didn’t understand the correlation which has validated my key point…
As for being a lousy ambassador for Wyndham ( who I do not represent) I think you will find that I am merely some one who finds a mixture of amusement and frustration over peoples inability to accept consequences for their actions and take responsibility for their choices.
Keep up the good work Sue – I too live in a real world where I care for my husbands debilitated grandfather having just cared for both him and his wife for the past five years as she was dying from pancreatic cancer.
The anger and defensiveness in both your responses stems very deep.
I hope you can both find peace within yourselves to move forward and not focus your energies on the perceived negatives.
Namaste’
Amen! Madmarmot. Your’s was one of the first posts I read when I was reseaching my crimeshare. If you saw my post the other day I am officially out of mine. And I am from canada to boot!!! I even got a pretty good refund. What does that tell you??? I just kept e-mailing the powers-that-be in florida until they caved in. I think I will trade in my poopy rubber gloves in for a sales job!!!! PS couldn’t have done it without Jeremy’s website! You Rock Buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my apologies – the other comments were posted whilst I was typing.
We are not talking about rape victims here Madmarmot – if you truly believe this company is as corrupt and vile as stated, enough for you to make physical deragotory comments to me..perhaps you have misdirected your anger.
They are a lawfully operating business – you pay taxes to a Government that allows them to trade..if they are fraudsters then is it not the system that is allowing them to STILL BE operating that is really responsible…
But I guess more can be achieved by making abusive comments to random people on a blog then actually taking some real action…
Best of luck with all your future endeavours kind people
A victim is a victim and these people were conned out of thousands of dollars. You came into this blog where people are exasperated and feel preyed upon(which they were) putting the onus on them. You don’t think that is abusive? My comments stand. These people are being too nice to you I believe. Go and f yourself. Don’t try to take the moral high ground now.
I am selling my house and Movng to the mouintainsd
Expressing a difference of opinion on a public blog is now classified as abusive?
Thank you for educating me in such social media matters.
Please endeavour to also ensure the other people that have posted the POSITIVE experiences they have had are also aware of their abusiveness for differing in opinion.
Greatly appreciated
That’s cool Emma. But there are a lot of upset people that are being affected by this. It’s not the same thing as making the mistake of buying a 1600 dollar vacuum cleaner. We absolutely did say no when this happened. 5 hours later we signed up. Yes we are canadian hillbillies going to vegas for the first time. That is exactly what they prey on. Didn’t mean to attack you. You sound like a nice person. Trust me these people are telling the truth. Thanks for commenting back so we don’t have to be so angry
Thank you Sue for replying with meaning and not just abuse – you are obviously a nice person and I will take on board and consider the comments you have just made.
I am glad you were able to get resolution.
Take Care x
Do you have payments coming out of your bank account or credit card as we did? When the credit card expires just don’t re-activate it. We had up to 8 calls a day from wyndham and the head office working with us and the end result was they were fucked. Excuse my french!!!! Oops I mean canadian!!!
I hope you understand what all these these people are going through. It is serious. For instance my husband and I were on a all expense paid trip for his work. We didn’t know vegas and were so into the groove. If we continued this joke of a timeshare I would seriously have to sell my third of a million dollar dream house. Canada is very expensive to live. Take care Emma!!!!
Now go buy yourself a lottery ticket. You are a lucky person!!!!! Enjoy!!
Madmarmot if somebody has said something bad to you. I will use my canadian inside voice. Put this on faceboolk fuck you !!!!!
Sue, i can’t tell if you are directing that at me or at “someone who said something bad to me”.
Happy Halloween!
I just came back from a house of horrors *cough* I mean Wyndham presentation with my fiance tonight. Hoping to just obtain the “winning” airline tickets for our upcoming honeymoon so I didn’t listen to or understand a word they were saying about the “points” program, nor did I care. All I heard was WAH WAH WAH-charlie brown.
We just told them straight out that we just graduated school and are saving for our wedding, so we couldn’t afford a time share. Our sales person immediately found our “exit survey” guy (after 2hours mind you) who didn’t bother us and let us go to the booth to collect our “gifts.”
I am so so happy to have just read the posts in this forum (even if I didn’t read them before we wasted 2hrs)! I know better now not to use the offers and just save up for our honeymoon (no big deal and my fiance isn’t mad at me for having him sit through that which is a big thumbs up!).
Just hoping they don’t haggle us in the future because they have our address and phone numbers. Does anyone think we’ll be hearing back from them? DUN DUN dunnn…
P.S. For those curious to go to the presentation: Just imagine a bunch of criminals in suits and ties (for example, our salesman had one half of a mustache tattooed on each forefinger, so now use your imagination= slimy salesman).
Good for you. You trusted your instincts. Congratulations!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Sue!!
Swallowbird, speaking From my experience, you will hear back from them in 6 months. Or they will sell your name to other TS hustlers and you will hear from them in 6 months. But now you know what to expect and have learned a couple of tactics on your own. When they call back you can tell them that the gift you received last time did not make it worth your time to go to the presentation. Tell them that you see TS somewhere in your future but not right now. I think you will find that they will up the “door prizes” quite a bit to try to get you to return. Then you can decide whether or not you want to go through the gauntlet again. But don’t worry about too many calls to get you back. They know that if you consider them to be a “harrassing phone caller” they will never get you back.
Have a great Honeymoon!
NK
Thanks Nick, I will remember and we already threw away the airline tickets
Garry says
Wyndham Resorts is a scam. Whatever you do don’t stay there. Even though there facilities are ok here is why. They force you to come to there SO CALLED NO PRESSURE TIME SHARE CLASS. They say it’s just to understand there points program. From that little class they take to another semi private setting and just start pounding on you to Buy there time-share points program called PICS. Then they will switch you to there credit card even though you TELL THEM NO. They lie from the start to the finish. They seem to act really nice until you say NO AND THEN THEY KICK YOU TO THE STREET. Whatever you do absolutely do not ever let them force you to this class. I can’t even imagine how this company can even operate in the US. It’ the BIGGEST scam ever. Just say NO – NO – NO.
Came along to this site way toooo late. Headed to the presentation tomorrow at 12:30. They have 100 dollars of our money. Supposed to be getting show tickets in return. 8 of them. We will see.
Stephanie,
So here’s the deal. Stay strong. Listen. Be courteous.
When they stop you on the way out, be courteous and strong.
Leave with all your money in your pocket.
They are harsh, difficult and will pressure you harder than you may ever realize is possible.
Good luck …
Jeremy Witteveen
Terminate. Terminate with extreme prejudice.
Be sure to say no. No matter what. You will thank yourself in the morning!!!
Interesting comments. We have visited many timeshare presentations for really low price trips. Since we say ‘no’ easily (remember, it’s only 2 letters to it’s a 50% savings on saying ‘yes’), we’ve pocketed several cards and low priced stays, and kept careful notes on prices and terms.
An interesting item in recent years was the full move to points. With points, you stay where ever you can reserve with sometimes some advanced ability to reserve where you have a deed. With Hilton, it was $58,000 to deed in Hawaii and $32,400 to deed Myrtle Beach for the same point deal. When I asked why anyone ever deeded Hawaii they seemed puzzled and noted that deeding in Myrle Beach was more common. Marriott had the same point price, but differing maintenance fees. Same story.
Another interesting item noted by some is that you can negotiate. We purchased a set of Wyndham points after spending two weeks at Wyndham resorts in the Pokonos and California. Our final price was less than half the starting price ($11K) and included double the points in the first year, more $ in AMEX cards and an ocean view room upgrade that they made on the spot in California. Laptop in hand with the comparisons – which makes them wince – you can propose prices that make it worthwhile to you. Put yourself in the driver’s seat.
We determined that we spent $1,300 less last year as an owner, assuming that we would have earned 7% on our $11K investment and that we would have paid 50% of posted prices on the rooms we occupied. We like to stay in two bedroom units with kitchens, so 50% off is usually the best we can do. In 5 years we will have recouped our initial investment.
Again, interesting comments and warning about scams. Still, if you can negotiate the right deal, you can have the product you want at a good price.
This is a quote from an attorney I found, which I find to be appropriate. Excellent explanation: “Time shares are a scam, in this lawyer’s opinion. They are overpriced and don’t deliver what salesmen promise.
Preliminarily, let me put to rest some of the biggest misconceptions about time shares. First, a time share isn’t an “investment in real estate”. It just isn’t. Time share sales people say that all the time, and it’s a lie. An investment is something that, under the best circumstances, appreciates over time. A time share, even under the best circumstances, depreciates over time. You cannot sell it at a profit, you cannot use it to obtain credit, and your interest expires without a “triggering event” such as death. Second, when you purchase a time share, you aren’t acquiring “ownership of real estate”. You cannot sell it, you cannot mortgage it, you own neither the land nor the building. Third, even though some time share companies are getting creative confusing people with some nonsense about “shares”, you aren’t acquiring “ownership in the company”: after all, you can’t sell your “shares” on the stock market, you don’t get to vote in annual elections, you don’t get to sit on the Board of Directors — you have no vested interest in the corporation itself.
So if a time share is none of those things, what is it? Well, what you are really buying is a revocable license to stay at a hotel, subject to numerous conditions and restrictions. A straightforward hotel reservation is similarly a revocable license: you pay money, you get a room for the night; and when you actually show up to get the key, the hotel is within its rights to turn you away. A time share is sort of like booking a hotel for ten or twenty years going forward. In fact, it’s exactly like that: it’s as if you called a Sheraton and told them you want to book a room for a week for every year for 20 years, and you want to pay now; or sign a document saying you owe them the money and pay them interest. Sounds retarded, doesn’t it? Well, that’s what a time share is. It’s a brilliant scheme for the seller, because they get your money now, but you’ll spend decades collecting the benefit, and they might even get interest out of you; and it’s a very bad deal for the buyer.
A lawyer is required by law to be a killjoy, so I always think of the worst-case scenario. Since a time share is a “revocable license”, what happens if and when it does get revoked? Well, the owner (the real owner) of the hotel owes you the balance of the money, arguably — good luck suing them. Time shares are sold by major corporations whose wall-to-wall lawyers have thought of that contingency, believe me. If you buy this time share, I guarantee you that somewhere in that 10-lb packet of papers you will sign a contract that will say you can only sue Wyndham in Guam or something, and not until you’ve gone through a mediation in Antarctica and an arbitration conducted in medieval Latin. Big corporations that push contracts of adhesion LOOOVE doing things like that, and usually get away with them.
And what happens if in the long years you have that time share the corporation that actually owns the properties goes bankrupt? Since you don’t, in fact, own a fee simple interest in real estate, you are just an ordinary non-priority creditor, which means under the best of circumstances, you get pennies on the dollar.
There is another misconception about time shares that sales people push, and that’s that time shares provide “flexibility”. In reality, it’s the exact opposite. Even in the most flexible of arrangements, like the one that the OP is describing, you are still limited to “network” hotels — you are essentially tied to destinations that have participating hotels and you are at the mercy of their availability (unless you rent out your time share, which isn’t terribly difficult, but still a hurdle). You want real flexibility? Pick a place on the map, look at the current deals on all accommodations and book a hotel of your choice — and pay per reservation, not money upfront for accommodations to be had a decade from now.
Time shares are often pitched to people who haven’t traveled much. Seasoned travelers know that time shares are nonsense. Sales people influence the unwary with horror stories of how you might want to go to Paris someday and won’t be able to find a hotel room because you weren’t smart enough to book it 10 years in advance by purchasing a time share. By buying a time share, they say, you are “guaranteed a hotel room” any time you want. This, as I said, is nonsense. There are always hotel rooms in Paris, Cancun, Buenos Aires, Miami — nice ones. I’ve traveled all over the world, been to over 30 countries, and I’ve never found myself in a situation where I wasn’t able to book a decent hotel at a reasonable price in a destination of my choice. And paying for a hotel room a couple of months before your trip sure beats the hell out of paying for it years in advance.
A time share does not magically “guarantee” a vacation. You can always have a vacation if you so choose, and pay as you go. Unless you need the time share as a psychological tool to get a sedentary SO out of the house, it’s not a good deal under any circumstances. And it’s definitely not an “asset”
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/travel/354863-wyndham-timeshare-good-bad-what-restriction-2.html#ixzz1zx6HCy5e
I just got gift invitation, maybe I should not go. the gift as below “A Vacation Your Way Certificate redeemable for 4 round trip airline
tickets to your choice of 1 of over 25 destinations (2 tickets may be used
per vacation, 2 vacations allowed) when you purchase a minimum number of
nights at specified hotels. Or, if you don’t want to fly, you can use the
Certificate for discounts on up to 7 consecutive nights at specified
hotels. You must be 21 years old to redeem this offer. All reservations
are subject to availability and blackout dates. No travel is permitted
during the weeks before and after Christmas and Easter and during certain
special events depending upon destination. Ground transportation, taxes,
airfare/airport taxes and fees, fuel surcharge (where applicable), room
services charges, resort fees, meals and any other incidentals are not
included. Government imposed taxes and fees (approximately $38 to $195
per person) must be paid by advance deposit upon confirmation of travel
dates. Travel must be completed within two years of date of issue.
Retail value of the Certificate is $700-$6000 depending on travel dates,
destination chosen and room availability.Travel services and/or
accommodations are provided through First Priority Travel which is not
affiliated with Wyndham Vacation Resorts. For additional redemption
information and full disclosures please go to http://www.fptravel.com/vwy.”"
ray, what ended up happening? Did you go? I just got the exact same gift invitation, and I’m hesitant to go based on all the horror stories I’m reading. It sounds like if I go and am just firm enough about saying no, and put up with all the harassment, I could still walk out of there with this airfare package?
In May of 2011, we went to a Wyndham sales pitch. The guy showed us how we would save on our yearly vacations to Florida and our frequent business trips to D.C., so we bought into this scam. Yes, the properties are quite nice, and we decline to participate in any “owner’s survey, etc. However, our issue is that there are never any rooms available! Now, we find that money is being deducted for some kind of program that we do not remember agreeing to. We have contacted Better Business Bureau, and we are wanting to get out of this scam. Any ideas?
With Wyndham, the paperwork rules. If you still have the closing documents from when you purchased it will contain all the “extras” you signed up for and agreed to pay for. If you have the paperwork, and you did not sign for what they are charging you, they will refund your money. You have to be persistent and the BBB helps because they will publish that there is an unresolved grievance against the company. Almost 2 years after I purchased a week in Alexandria Va I found that I was not being rewarded as the higher level owner I was promised I would be. They ignored me until I produced the paperwork. Their next response was “the check is in the mail”. And it was. I received my entire purchase price plus some interest and annual fees I had paid. So hang in there Pdh
Bad Experience with Wyndham Resorts:-
Last week we went on holidays to Tasmania and realised that we do not have Mercure Hotel booking, which was booked through Wyndham reservations. We came to know at Mercure, Launceston, TAS, that our booking was done for 20th to 22 nd Dec 2012 instead of 20-22nd January 2013 by the Wndham reservations. Neither Wyndham nor Mercure contacted us in December for the confirmation or after the lapse of booking timings. This booking was done over the phone. During booking it was confirmed twice the dates of our travel and we confirmed if our conversation is recorded as we were unable to book online. Luckly we had booked other 3 days at Hobart ourselves, which was fine. Frustration doubled when no one replied to our desperate calls to their emergency reservation number and left us stranded without accomodation at foreign place. Till today no one from Wyndham has made efforts to contact us despite calling them numerous times and sending e-mails.
Does anyone know how to get rid of your Wyndham points? We are so completely done with the crazy people there. We bought our points about 5 yrs ago. W have since used the time share twice and had a wonderful time. We also, have bought several of their mini-get always for a couple of hundred dollars. W brought friends on the mini’s. they put us up in terrible, I mean terrible, hotels. Stained floors, torn shower curtains, rude desk people, urine smells, you name it!!when we tried to check out, the employees of the hotel gave us a hard time. Speaking to the hotel manager was just as crazy!! W left, both times, and went to a Hampton inn for the remainder of the trips. They would not issue a refund. Neither would Wyndham. We wrote up formal complaints at Wyndham, at their request. W never ever heard back from them, even after numerous calls to them. I am sure they just threw the letters away. W are just plain sick of them and would love to unload our points somehow and not be locked into the monthly maintenance fees, which started out 5 yrs ago as $50/month and are now $135/month….please can someone direct us in the proper direction??? Just one nightmare after another..we are done!!! Thanks and good luck to all of you…
I think I can help you Kim. In trying to get rid of my points I think I found a way. I haven’t actually done it though. I’m pretty new to blogs. Can you contact me through facebook since that it how I logged in? If you still want help let me know.
I’ve just now had a call from them here in Australia offering a $50 gift card for Coles/Myers and $1000 gift certificate for overseas. A great stall tactic over here is to ask them for their A.B.N (australian business number) and google their business name with ‘scam’ while they scramble around looking for it (if they don’t just hang up on you). This blog post was one of the top google hits and I want to say thank you for posting it because even a skim read gave me enough info to know these guys are not to be dealt with.
I also hated the questions they were trying to ask me! Anyway, I feel badly for you that you had such a horrid experience but you’re absolutely helping to spare others. Even from across the world! Thanks again.
Just ruined my vacation! Which is strange because during the presentation the presenter who explained time is short and how his mother a survivor from cancer and family that he missed grow up because he was more concerned about the financial succes of his life. Wish I had time back and not signed up.
1. Be prepared to be greeted at door. Sign some paperwork.
2. Meet a real estate advisor
3. Breakfast: packaged bagel and 4 once coffee.
4. Listen to stories from presenter about time with family and how investing into “today is the day”
5. Advisor mentioned that her boyfriend was from our state. Really! Then later second guy said his best friend was from our state. Really!
6. She played into our sceptisim by down playing the whole process.
7. VIP status: everyone doesn’t get VIP she says. Bs.
8. Go to another room that is a make shift office. Very bare. Not even a writing utensil in the desk.
9. Go visit an amazing room. The dinner table was fit for a king. 4 bedrooms. 2 whirlpool baths.great view. Wow!
10. Come back and she does some calculations on “notes page”. I’ll be right back she says. I’m getting a better offer.
11. Ask her why decision today. She says the laws fault.
12. Why no comparison of other shares prices. She mentions we have rci.
13. Brings contract with different prices. I say I need more time. I have been here 3.5 hours.
14. Then a agent blew up on people next to us. Ripping up paper and yelling why would you not want this offer. It was embarrassing.
15. Our agent apologized
16. Then manager came to cubicle. What a tool he was.”So folks your agent mentioned that you witnessed something and I want to apologize. Did this affect your decision.”
17. Agent tried again to not take “no”. Then she says a person will give exit survey.
18. Good cop bad cop routine.
19. “I don’t work with real estate agents he said” but at the end if the survey he makes you an offer.
20. The offer is a temporary 20 month deal. $2500 down for our incoveince of watching bad business ethics.
21. I told him “the gift doesn’t mean anything” he with angry voice says they spend 100 million on gifts. Very cocky personality.
22. After “no again” he walked us to back door.
23. Warning do not go
24. Don’t sign anything if you do
25. Remember time is important but so is your money.
Thank you for this detailed and interesting response. These people should be ashamed!
If you can’t sell something on its merits, don’t.
Thanks also for taking the time to write it out.
As above, just had a call from ‘Chai’ a very charismatic rep who advised that i had won $1000 travel voucher and that she was throwing in $100 coles myer voucher because i had been selected as this months lucky winner (of what i dont know). We chit chatted away for about 20minutes (lovely conversation – one of the best ive ever had with a female to be honest lol) and then she said that all i had to do was drive into Sydney, sit through an obligation free presentation and i’d be on my way. She booked me in for the weekend and i was happy as larry.
The next morning i woke up thinking, hey something about this doesnt seem right, and googled wyndham to find dozens of pages detailing the scam.
Recieved a phone call today from a wyndham rep confirming my appointment, to which i let her know how deceitful and unethical their organisation was and that i would be emailing a complaint through to the Department of Fair Trading and tipping off the media.
Just wanted to say thankyou to you all for posting your experiences, because if this werent here, i absoutely would have fallen for this scam and being a weak willed individual, would have ruined my personal finances.
An impressive share! I have just forwarded this onto a friend who had been
conducting a little research on this. And he actually ordered me lunch simply because I found it for him.
.. lol. So allow me to reword this…. Thanks for the meal!
! But yeah, thanks for spending some time to talk
about this subject here on your site. Mycorresp.
Com
thanks for all the comments about this shameful scam.I am going to cancel appointment with them.
So thankful for everyone posting. I am going to cancel first thing in the morning! I refuse to deal with rude and pushy people..I’d rather save and pay for the lodging to avoid hassle. Thanks again Happy Easter
Thanks. I’m at one of their presentations right now. The 12 min clip was a sales video for sure with confused references to ownership, buyin timeshare and transferring to children. Nothing about dividends, third party transfers etc.
So at the end of 2 hours, two coffees, two smoke breaks and two referrals of questions to his manager, the sales consultant Rom finally gave up trying to convince us to part with what would be the start of up to $19000 a year on essentially a FlyBuys style club membership.
They try to explain it as a way to invest into the future of your holiday plans. Invest is the word that I have problems with in the context that they’re using it in. To most, an “investment” is something that will likely provide you with a positive return. Note: you do not get an equity ownership in the hotel assets that this group manages.
Indeed, the supervisor described it as exclusive access to the expected vacancy rates of hotel rooms, which is then placed into a trust. What exactly is exactly placed into a trust (that Wyndham later manages) and which is owned by those buying into the club becomes very vague. Indeed, what they’re inviting us to ‘invest’ and supposedly could be called owners of, was equally vague as they:
1. Referred in their promo video and conversation to ‘owning’ the holiday apartments as a collective;
2. Explicitly mentioned in their promo video the ability to transfer such ownership through inheritance, and said verbally that it could be “sold” to a third party;
3. Under more detailed questioning, mentions that the presumably underlying assets are the overflow vacant rooms if the hotel facilities which the club gets (leases under contract?) to use exclusively;
4. Refer to the entity that arranges access to these vacant hotel rooms and apartments as a “club” which you become “members” of.
5. Confirm that you would NOT be able to enjoy any tax advantage normally associated with ownership of real estate such as a home. So there will never be any capital appreciation which a normal category of asset “investment” would be expected to have;
6. Described the investment as appreciating over time with the typical compound interest graph, but its really to describe how the cost of a holiday would become had you decide to delay parting with your $19,000 now instead of at a future time (very convincing graph, in an amateurish way!). However they failed to elaborate how the initial points you’d receive if you were going to join would maintain its value (and not be diluted) from either a) Wyndham making certain destinations more expensive, b) Wyndham issuing more points to subsequent members, or c) Wyndham introducing ‘more owners’ (to use their own parlance.
7. Did not mention anything, not one skerrick or iota detail, about dividend, return on investment, management fee, governance, or reporting structure.
Essentially, this is a sales presentation for you to pay $19000 to be a member of a traveling club. As members, you’d be allocated x number of points to use across different resort destinations by redeeming those points. How these points may be inpacted by dilution is nor highlighted (of course). Once used, you’d presumably have to pay more or you’d be issued more as part if your regular payment commitments.
Bottom line is: For the above seven reasons listed, this is NOT an investment. It is an upfront payment for a future use of a holiday resort’s facility, which involves having to pay regular payments. Think of it as Christmas Hamper schemes of resorts, except you don’t know exactly which resort you’ll be getting for the payments you make (as it depends on the points they specify as being required to enjoy privilege… of supposedly something you own)!
Not only does it not appreciate, if you purchased like we had done several years ago, you would know that you cannot even find anyone to give them to. I receive calls, sometimes daily, from companies who tell me that they can make them go away. Of course, there is a catch. To play along, I ask them if I could give my points to them and that I do not want anything in return. All of them say the same thing: that they cannot do that.
The only thing that does appreciate is the monthly maintenance costs.
William
I have been an “owner” for 11-13 years. I have enjoyed ALL of the resorts and often return to a few. However, I do not like the
sales pitches…and I have bought more than I need. I find the other guest pleasant…I do not go to make friends with them. The staff at those resorts I return to have become ‘friends’ to the point that I spend time with a few of them. And those I get to know better really ‘look out for me.’
I am 82 y/o now and the last 4-5 years I have traveled more often solo as I am retired for 10 years and have finally given myself lots of vacation time…most is used at Wyndham Resorts.
Are there hassles to it? Yes…But usually I get what I want and where I want. I have learned the earlier I decide where I want to go and then call to request the resort, date, and size, the more likely I am to get exactly what I want.
Nearly every year I give or rent 1-2 weeks to friends or relatives.
Am I the ONLY one to have anything good to say.
Admittedly, I have not read ALL the comments before or after I
wrote this. Oh, well, to each his or her own.
Marge
First let me thank you Jeremy for having the presence of mind to start the blog. I suspect like others searching for information on this company it has been a process of scanning through dozens of websites, all posted by Wyndham, that portray the group and opportunity in a very biased and positive light. Clearly an attempt to flood the internet and dilute any negative feedback posted.
My partner and I have just endured the Wyndham selling experience down under in New Zealand. Having been bombarded with questions and multiple phone calls, locally and from Australia, prior to the big night of presentation I was becoming more than a little suspect of the company and what it was offering. This absurd business of “I will just put you onto my supervisor who can conform the offer and dates”, begins to become annoying and is reminiscent of kindergarten and the repartition of questions and reminders is an indicator of what may be in store.
I confess, lured initially by the promise of $75 and travel accommodation vouchers to the value of $1000, I was prepared to sit through a proposed 90 minute presentation and the blatant avoidance of clarifying the actual product prior to the event became annoyingly intriguing. This began to fall into the,”It’s so bad it is good category”.
On arrival we were required to fill in a form with the same sort of contact details that had already been supplied verbally. On entering we were give a promotional pack…and yes, yet another form. Very quickly the gathered group was divided and we (about 8 people) were shown into a very basic presentation room. Here our presenter introduced himself, tried to make a few very sad jokes about his fiancé and future Australian in-laws. No reaction from his gathered victims was predictable but his response was he was looking to see if we (the victims) had a pulse. I am not at all sure where this guy had been taught to insult his potential customers but he was certain doing well.
Moving on he drew a rough diagram on the white board showing the Wyndham holding company and verbally ran through a list of companies who supposedly were part of the group and went on to assure us that our “savings” were safe as they were held in Trust and at any time those who participated in purchasing their “holiday saving scheme” could collectively choose to vote the current management structure out of office. This would require 51% of 45,000 investors to collectively agree. Having read what many who have been sucked into this scheme say it would be apparent that at least 51% would want out if they could but that would be logistically very difficult given investors are based all over the world with no mechanism in place to communicate a common objective. (Incidentally the 45,000 was the figure given by our presenter and I have no way to check if this or any other information provided is correct).
Naturally everyone is encouraged to ask questions…this, according to the presenter, provides you with the information to make an informed decision. But of course this offer was so good that it was only for this evening, would never be repeated so the informed decision would have to be made quickly…and of course would have to be based on believing all information was honest and accurate. Yeah right. Who, outside the most vulnerable, inexperienced or pressured, would make a decision to spend thousands of dollars and commit to a lifetime of corporate maintenance costs without being able to do some background checks and due diligence.
So the next question I asked was why he (the presenter) would refer to this as a savings plan. I pointed out a savings plan would mean I could also withdraw my savings at any given time. But no, there was no option to withdraw or any buy back scheme available in Wydham. He informed me I could however sell my points on the open market. He failed to tell us that when they are offered for sale it is usually for less than half of the purchase value to those lucky enough to be able to sell them. Most are not. So the simple truth was this was not a saving plan…. so what was it?
The presenter was then asked if this was a timeshare structure and he immediately denigrated the concept of timeshare pointing out that many people had lost a lot of money with timeshare. Ironically their own literature refers to timeshare but I was not aware of it at the time. So it was not savings, it was not timeshare and it certainly was not a share holding in a company with assets…so what was it?
It was an interest in all the companies and resorts in the Asia Pacific Group that provided the flexibility to go anywhere and stay anywhere.
Enter the associate. Our presenter called my partner and my name out “could you both go with our representative.” And we dutifully followed without the benefit of hearing and further details on the contributions and what they were offering. It was really very funny and we both felt that we were naughty children who had asked to many questions and were being sent from the room.
We were asked three more questions.
Where was your last holiday?
What are the ages of your children?
What holiday did you children enjoy most?
These were answered honestly and we were then told, “I will get your reward package and show you to the door”. This was done in a very abrupt way intended to try to belittle and embarrass. It was rude but transparent and amusing. The entire process took just over one hour. We were never asked to sign or agree to anything and it was clear they did not want anyone who might give others in the group cause for concern or to consider the wisdom of the offer.
I personally feel amused that these people are such obvious scammers and there performance is predictable and transparent. It seems to attract a certain type of sales person with a very shabby, thin veneer or mask. I was going to compare them to a car salesman but that would be doing the car salesman a serve disservice.
It is very sad that the vulnerable, who take people at face value, trust these people and many pay a very expensive price for years. Emotionally, and morally this type of selling should be stopped. If the product is of value there should not be any need to put pressure on potential clients, there should be no need to “sign now”, this is a very nasty and devious way to do business. If people do not go along with them they become very rude and menacing in their behaviour in a very childish way.
Wow, this blog saved my wife and I. I just received a call from a saleslady claiming that I won this great package sponsored by Wyndham. Of course I entered a contest at the mall to win a beautiful Jaguar sedan. Not realizing I was giving my info to the Wyndham sales folks. Anyway, she called and invited us to sit in a free presentation where we just had to say “no”. Glad I read this blog, we are not capable of withstanding sales pressures as I recall many times in my life being suckered in and out of stuff. “a fool and his money, shall soon part”. Or something like that. Thanks for the blog…..! We are not going.
Wise man Mike. Being aware of the scam helps avoid the investment but even just attending leaves you feeling annoyed and angry. Not going is the best solution.
Exact thing happens to us while in Fiji on a holiday. Except we went looking for Wyndham resort. We got a free dinner cruise in Fiji from them. We knew the routine as it happens to a friend of ours. We just wanted the cruise
Deal.
But you are correct regarding the secure building, tactics, sales pitch etc, similar experience. The rep didn’t even give me his phone number until I asked for it twice.
I guess we won this one because I will never call him. Like you, I would also not buy anything worth more than a $100 without reviewing it first.
I went to a Wyndham presentation last night in Sydney. Basically to get my $100 voucher
I had no idea what to expect.
In theory the Wyndham idea sounds good. However I would never sign that much money away with out doing research first. So they were never going to get me.
It was interesting to experience such sales tactics, and I was surprised how two hours went so quickly.
What really gave the scam away for me was I figured any business who will only offer you the Premier package for 34k on that one night only, and risk missing out on the 34k next week after the customer has done research is a total scam. No business works like that.
The excuses the sales guy gave me as to why it was this way were so backwards i.e the sales guy only has 90 mins to make the sale. If he has to do the paper work with you for 90 mins next week that’s another customer he misses. I was actually disgusted that he tried to make me feel guilty and sign away 34k so as not to waste his sales guys time next week. Laughable tactic.
However I did think maybe this is something the family can do together (i’m single and didn’t want to sign up alone, if ever I would) after I do some big research and think about. (obviously not happening now
!! )
My holiday calculations they do during the presentation came out as $125,000 that I would be spending over 40 years in general on holiday accom – with out Wyndham.
They offered 12,000 points for base payment 34k. Payment plan at 13% interest. Maintenance would be approx 1k a year.
As I kept telling them I would never sign that amount away on the spot, so they came at me with 3 other offers, including one for only 3k with 6000 points for two years to ‘try before you buy’ with apparently no contractual obligation. (that one almost got me) but I stuck to my guns and my rational thought that if Wyndham really wants my money the offer will be there tomorrow after I’ve done my research.
After I left and was walking home I realised that a premier package total WITH wyndham over 40 years inc base cost and maintenance would have been 80k (not including any interest on payment plan and maintenance inflation). Really only a third saving if that. And meaning that my style of travel which swings from adventurous to resorts would not even be achievable and I would have lost freedom if I signed up.
I counted my lucky stars on that walk home. I am a very rational person when it comes to money and I have never been so close to being duped ever. I am glad to have got through this experience and got out the other side.
Pooh,
Wise man. You are right there is no plausible excuse for the pressure they apply and it is only to ensure that those who accept their terms at face value have little opportunity to research the content. To pre determine what holidays you will take, what it will cost and where you might go over the next 10, 20 or 40 years is absurd….that is assuming you can get a booking when and where you want it and that Wyndham’s sales performance will not be outlawed in the foreseeable future. Hope so!