Imagine this: I masterminded Loftus’ loss by influencing college students, in other news, pigs flew today.

Debunking Christianity’s John Loftus questioned my review of the debate over at his blog. Apparently I didn’t give any substance to my review, and therefore it wasn’t accurate. My mental rationality has been called into question.

Also, I masterminded the effort to sway the poor college idiots into thinking he lost the debate. If I were one of those students, I would be insulted (did you hear me students, cue your insult face).

Perhaps I should clari-fucking-fy what I meant in my review, because now Loftus has goaded me, and this shall not go well for I sit behind the fortress that is my computer desk, and I can say many brave things from here … as apparently he has a strong fortress of a desk to sit behind too. You don’t goad a Puerto Rican and expect not to get stung.

He told me at the meet and greet Monday night that he joked with me back on this post in which I said,

I took the “Debunking Christianity Challenge” and I won! Well, I took it before it was John Loftus’ challenge.

Notice I said, “I took it before it was …” In other words, if you stick the two words together, “Debunking” and “Christianity”, I took the challenge and won.

Loftus doesn’t have registered trademark on the words “debunking christianity”. Before it was the John Loftus challenge, required reading for the debunking christianity challenge would have been any book of my choice. In fact, I debunked christianity over 8 years ago which certainly predates his challenge by … many moons.

He also said I called him a jerk. I think he might be referring to this post, in which I jokingly said that he called me a jerk under his breath. It was an imaginary event that NEVER happened. I was making a joke to his joke. I wasn’t taking his words seriously. I was thrilled to have him surfing around on my pathetic excuse for a blog.

I don’t need to be obsequious to the guy. I really liked meeting him, and I said I wished I had more of a chance to talk to him at the meet and greet at this post, but his voice was shot and he was trying to save it for Tuesday night.

I had high hopes going into the debate. I’ve been a lurker on his blog for over a year. When I saw that the debate was set, I decided to go. I rented a car, got a hotel room, invested my time to go and got stuck with surcharges because of the weather and having to get a second night stay and a third rental day on the car just to see the debate. Financially, I lost on this experience.

To clarify about what I meant in terms of his cold, I couldn’t understand him at times. At others, his cold was effecting my ability to follow his train of thought. Other times, he mumbled, and the message was lost all together. I was trying to be nice and say, “Hey, your cold got in the way of your message.” He could have explained the secrets of the universe, but between the mumbles and the cold, I wasn’t hearing him. What I did hear I didn’t think was strong. It definitely wasn’t strong enough to remember. For instance he made a point to say that Christians are brainwashed. Instead of taking that to the next level, he ended up repeating it. Once would have been sufficient, but two or three times, not so effective.

His words came off muffled, and if you want to know what I’m talking about, here’s an example. Surprise! I have some video. Notice Loftus doesn’t get a laugh on his laugh line. I love that Jim Carrey reference, but I didn’t even smirk when he made it.

He also called out the possibility that I spoiled the well for the rest of the student skeptics at the bar after the debate. What he doesn’t know was that the college-age students who I was sitting with during the debate were all writing notes back and forth hoping to get to the pub earlier than later. After the debate, they were grumbling about the debate and wanted to avoid the book signing in lieu of a drink or two.

At the pub, I spent 15 minutes on the phone with my wife and about 30 minutes talking to a non-student skeptic named Wesley, where he and I discussed the necessity of improving atheist PR, among a myriad of other topics, including why we atheists thought we were poorly served at the debate that night.

I’m not in the business of influencing students. They had their own opinions about the night, and they weren’t impressed. If they don’t speak up, I guess it’s my word against Loftus’.

Let me know what you think about the clips I linked to. Let me know if you disagree with my interpretation of D’Souza’s debate.

Let me know if any of you have a pulse.

23 thoughts on “Imagine this: I masterminded Loftus’ loss by influencing college students, in other news, pigs flew today.

  1. Joking aside, the apparent issue is with the phrase “I wasn’t made to like him”. Which seems to be misinterpreted. I read it not so much as “I so like him and I so do not like him” but more as feeling, understanding, and liking the information being imparted.

    Of course, I could be totally wrong and if that is the case, please feel free to let me know 🙂

  2. You’re completely right.

    I was talking about the temporal moment during the debate where I should have been woo’d by Loftus, but I was not.

    “I was not made to like him” is a passive way of saying, “There was nothing he did that made me agree with him or evoke compassion for him.

    It was poor syntax. 🙂

  3. Speaking as an outsider who wasn’t a participant, the blog post in question sort of comes across as Mr. Loftus got his manties in a bit of a twist. No big deal. It happens to the best of us. Including critiques. Critiques should be taken in a professional manner but occasionally you just don’t feel like it. I’ve been there on more than one occasion 😀

  4. Be careful of John W. Loser. He’s an idiot. If you disagree with him, he’ll say you have problems. Would you believe he blamed his ex-wife for his sexual affair?! From his book:


    I was the founding president of Operation Shelter, (now called Turning Point) in Angola, Indiana. It was an organization that seeks to give temporary shelter to people in need, I worked day after day with the executive director, whose’ name was Linda. She practically idolized me. She did everything I said to do, and would call me daily to help her deal with various situations that came up from the running of the Shelter, along with her personal problems. What man doesn’t want to be worshipped? I guess I did. I was having problems with my own relationship with my wife at the time, and Linda made herself available. I succumbed and had an affair with her.

    There’s so much more I’d like to say bout this, but few people would believe me. I believe she was a con artist, and she conned me. As a former stripper she had it inn for preachers, and she took out her wrath on me. Perhaps because I was a moral crusader in town and stood against abortion and X-rated video rentals, she chose to humiliate me. Suffice to say there are some women out there who, akin to Potipher’s wife in the Bible, find it challenging to see if they can sack a minister, and she did.

    How many sermons have you heard about Joseph and Potipher’s wife where the preacher asked something like this: “how many men would have been able to overcome this temptation?” And they conclude with, “I fear not many men could’ve over come this.” Preachers say this to bolster our confidence in the amount of faith Joseph had, and his strength of will. But when someone like me actually does succumb to such a temptation, these same preachers are quick to condemn me. Although, I’m not proud of this.

    Ethicist Richard Taylor wrote a book on Having Love Affairs (Buffalo: Prometheus Books, 1982) and he discusses whose fault it is when there is an affair. I am not excusing myself here, but as he explains, there may be more to it. “Though a wife may be ever so dutiful, faultless, and virtuous in every skill required for the making of a home, if she lacks passion, then in a very real sense she already is without a husband, or he, at least, is without a wife…What is to be stressed is that the first infidelity may or may not have been committed by the one who is having an affair. The first and ultimate infidelity is to withhold the love that was promised, and which was originally represented as the reason for marriage to begin with.”

    John W. Loftus, Why I Rejected Christianity, P.22


    1. Ken,

      Thanks for obsessively having this entire passage of Loftus’ book available to cut and paste. I told myself when I read that part of the book to beware of those people who will use it to tarnish Loftus’ person. Congratulations! You were the first.

      You are a crusader and your carnage is character assassination.

      Loftus must have done something right to piss you off this much.

      Lay down on my couch. Let’s talk about it.


      1. Uh, yeah, Loftus didn’t blame his ex-wife for his affair – he just quoted someone who said the wife may be at fault is all he did. Therefore, I have a problem. You’re too fast for me, Jeremy.

  5. John’s comments were clearly a shot at you. Atheism is party about selfish pride and John has a lot of pride so I wasn’t surprised. He seems to think he is the Craig for Atheists; however, no one else seems to think so.

    Thanks for the video clips…it was a smart idea! I think John totally misread your post too…being completely unfair to you as a person…

  6. His blog is no longer invite-only. It didn’t last long. I found this site because he linked to this post. It’s too bad he misunderstood your efforts to communicate with him.

  7. Hey, just to give you a heads up, I commented on Loftus’ blog about his recent posts about you, on his post where he questions your critical thinking skills. Feel free to take a look.


    1. Franklin,

      Man, that was really great of you to stick up for me like that. I don’t want to get all gushy, but that was really cool of you.

      You obviously took your time with that response, as it showed that you checked back here and cross referenced what he was saying.

      I wish I could say something pithy funny cool, like, “Check’s in the mail”, but cooler.

      Plain and simple, he is seeing red when everyone is hoping that he’ll calm down and soberly reflect on the events for what they were.

      I had a great time meeting all you guys, and it really bothered me that the assumption would be that I poisoned your minds.

      Like you said, I don’t dislike Loftus. I had expectations, and I was let down. We’ll now gather up our pieces, lift our chins up and keep moving forward.

      Thanks again!


  8. It was a shame he decided to go on the warpath against anyone disappointed in his performance, reducing all of the critics from his own camp to irrational children and demanding they prove their disappointment somehow. I hope he gets over it and moves on to either improvement in debate or focusing on what he seems to do best with writing.

    As a student and skeptic that found it pretty unbearable to watch, I agree with your assessment. Oh, and yes, I do have a pulse.

  9. Agreed its not the best idea to go on the warpath against those disappointed in the proformance.Professionals playing ball games must try always remembering this.Its kind of lots like the customers always right.

    However those with expectations also have to always remember to deal with whats realistic,and many professional ball games have been lost when expectation of both the player and fan was focused on best performance and winning.And naturally its both the player as well as the fans that feel disappointed,fans need to sometimes also try to keep their head screwed on and have some understanding of this.Remember their team wasnt trying to lose.

    When teams are out playing ball game amongst other top teams,although we feel disappointment at a loss.We need to also keep it in context remember to remind ourselves how tough the competition really is. Specially when we notice other teams also quite often seem to lose to the same team,this is sure sign that the style of the competitions tough.Give credit due for effort when the team gives it their best shot, and not forget factors like random colds either.We need to be critics for sure, but remember it wont help the team much if we make ourselves look more like enemys ungrateful for team members who put lots of effort into giving it their best shot.

    Quite often everyone has some improvements in proformance they could make.

    1. I appreciate your response.

      I must say, though, that while we must remember to keep it all in context and remind ourselves of the competition, there is no improvement when a team member in question thought he did great, when the world thought he did badly.

      That’s an issue of, dare I say, delusion.

      I don’t mind the Christians who have pointed out our spectacle here on this blog, and on other blogs and forums. It looks hilarious. We got burned. Interesting how we’re owning up. It looks funny, especially because Christians are incapable for the most part of doing this themselves.

      The irony is thick.

      Do Christians not realize their own history of breaking off into sects? Do they forget that their own churches break up over quibbles among themselves which they keep private for the sake of outsiders’ perception? This history of idiocy has transpired since Luther gave them protestantism. The bickering, puckering and blistering of their lacquered pew seats would predate Luther had their people been literate.

      Literacy, knowledge and information spells doom for religion. It takes a slicker message than a guy in a cowboy hat, apparently. An atheist can’t go to a debate and tell the audience to stop being brainwashed and “watch what you read” to get them to reconsider their views.

      Readers of this blog might know that I ridicule sub-excellence. I am a part of the atheist community, because I have found that Christianity falls very short of an excellent standard. It falls short of a mediocre standard, as evidenced in the comment below.

      We were not well served Tuesday night. That doesn’t mean we’re crying in the corner hugging our knees rocking back and forth. That means we’re at the drawing board working with our strategy and learning from a failure to execute our next success.

      All the best,


  10. I wish Loftus would get rid of that damn hat! He’s been wearing the same hat for YEARS.

    It must stink worse than a babies behind in dirty diapers by now!


    P.S. I love the smell of atheists bashing each other in the morning!

  11. The problem was this:

    D’souza won the verbal debate, but Loftus won the style debate. Loftus thought you were critiquing the style debate.

    I mean look at that hat, that is a big hat. And the bigger the hat the better I say.

    Had D’souza also worn a big hat, who knows what would have happened.

  12. Why is it some humans seem so infatuated by the smell of other peoples hats.What is it with these people is there some secret closet undie sniffers club they all belong to.

    Jeremy i do respect your right this is a blog you use to ridicule sub excellence.Was just pointing out quite often everyone has some improvements they could make.While i agree Christianity falls very short of excellent standard.I just wasnt under the impression atheism was about claiming rights to any perfection either.Specially agree with your last sentence.

    All the best.


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