Yesterday’s quote of the day

Yesterday, a comment from lolahbf revealed exactly what many Christians I’ve spoken to have admitted to me verbally, but never written.

You see, lolahbf thought this was a Christian blog based on this post. My sarcasm duped him/her.

He/she wrote:

if I wasn’t born into a Christian family, I would have hardened my heart and never found God.

That’s the truth whether you’re a Christian, Buddhist, atheist, Hindu, Muslim, or crackhead.

If you weren’t born into a Christian family, you would NEVER find god, not the Christian god anyway. 

I thank lolahbf for responding to the post, because this person had the nerve to admit what many Christians think, but never say.

 

 

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18 Responses to Yesterday’s quote of the day

  1. That is absolutely NOT true. Many people who are reared in a Christian home or family turn away from their roots. And millions upon millions of people who previously had never heard the name above all names have come to Him…did I miss something here?

  2. conniewalden says:

    My father was a Catholic, my mother was a Baptist, and I am neither. In my mid twenties, I heard about what Jesus did for me on the cross, I believed it and was baptized. Since then, I have been growing closer to Jesus Christ through studying the Bible daily and worshiping Him. I thank God for sending Jesus to purchase me with His blood.

    I’m not a Catholic or a Baptist. I’m a Christian, a follower of Christ.
    Thanks for sharing. Connie
    http://7thandvine.wordpress.com/

  3. Jeremy says:

    Ugh.

    I left out a key ingredient of the quote … it was specified as a “christian family.”

    I updated the quote above.

    That said.

    To the first responder, disciplegideon, if a person is not born into a Christian family, you’re right, they can “find Jesus.”

    I was raised in a missions church. I’m not an idiot.

    Although, the post above doesn’t shine the brightest light on my mental capacity. So there’s that.

    I have to say, thought that Christianity is a biproduct of bad appeals to psychology and gullibility. Jesus’ message is awful, and I don’t understand how either responder vouches for it.

    Lovely best,

    Jeremy

  4. lolahbf says:

    Hey,

    Just to let you know you strengthened my faith. And I also want to clarify that I said what I meant and I would admit it to the world. As I said in the other post, except God softened my heart, I would probably have never have opened my heart to God.

    I went to a point in my life about a year ago when I was questioning God and I came out of it on the side of God. I believe we all go through this – even atheists – who come out of it disbelieving and sometimes hating.

    Please don’t let us turn this into a big fight/argument. If there’s one thing I hate, it’s different religions or people with beliefs arguing to see who’s ‘top-dog’. Who will come out on top?

    You wrote a blog about me, I wrote a blog about you: http://lolachuckles.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/atheist-hatred-for-the-love-in-me/

    AND before you go into a huff and start another argument, notice how I said you WERE right in some of your points and that I am not perfect etc? I am not trying to get into an argument but show you where I’m coming from as I can understand where atheists come from – why they don’t believe in God.

    Thanks.

  5. Jeremy says:

    Argument?

    Faith works like that. I used to think like you.

    I used to say things like, “You strengthened my faith.”

    It’s clever.

  6. I think it is a bad idea to argue and extrapolate opinions about religion. You stated that Christ’s “message” was awful. No matter how you slice it, the “message” is of unconditional love, forgiveness, and a relationship with God. Now how one can twist those facts into something awful is beyond my comprehension. But I am not a religious person (Jesus was no fan of religion either!) and I will not sit in judgement of someone else. Unfortunately, Christ spoke the words, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the LIfe; no one comes to the Father but by Me”. Can that be interpretted any other way? Truth is independent of our opionion of it; Truth is Truth whether we choose to believe it or not…I didn’t say it. But the beautiful part is that “Christ died for us while we were yet sinners”. Christianity stands alone as the only “religion” that does not require us to reach up to God or make ourselves worthy for God…He reached DOWN to us in an unbelievable gesture of love. If this is awful in your estimation, I am afraid to think of what “message” isn’t awful in your eyes. No offense, I just think that you may have been fed a bunch of disinfected lies about His “message”. One should not speak of things they do not know…the power of Christ and His love is a real and tangible experience. I don’t sit here speculating; I have seen the Light and Truth and it DOES set you free (spiritually, unless you don’t even believe that we have spirits). My sincerest desire is that at one point in your life, that you consider Jesus’ REAL message. I love you.

  7. Kilre says:

    –No matter how you slice it, the “message” is of unconditional love, forgiveness, and a relationship with God.–

    Unconditional? How is it unconditional? Why would we want a relationship with this particular deity, given his/her/its history?

    –Now how one can twist those facts into something awful is beyond my comprehension.–

    Twist? Have you considered what outsiders say about your faith or do you just live in a bubble?

    –But I am not a religious person[...]–

    How are you not religious?

    –Jesus was no fan of religion either!–

    Wasn’t he a practicing Jew? Didn’t he say that he was a fulfillment of Jewish law?

    –Unfortunately, Christ spoke the words, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the LIfe; no one comes to the Father but by Me”. Can that be interpretted any other way? Truth is independent of our opionion of it; Truth is Truth whether we choose to believe it or not…I didn’t say it.–

    How is it unfortunately? How do we know he actually spoke those words? Are they recorded by non-Christian sources, or is it entirely Christian propaganda that we have to base our knowledge of this moment upon? Is it at all significant that this quote only appears in one of the gospels, and not all of them?

    What truths can we learn from middle-eastern Jews living thousands of years ago that we don’t know better today? Sure, truth is independent of opinion, but isn’t the biggest measure of truth whether or not it is true no matter who believes what? Do microwave ovens work because there is something in them that only one religion knows is True? Or is there ways we can test whether or not a claim is true based upon shared experiences that can be demonstrated and repeated and falsified, even to outsiders?

    –But the beautiful part is that “Christ died for us while we were yet sinners”.–

    Why did he have to die for us? Couldn’t your god just forgive us “sinners”? Why did he have to invent sin in the first place? What purpose does it serve?

    –Christianity stands alone as the only “religion” that does not require us to reach up to God or make ourselves worthy for God…He reached DOWN to us in an unbelievable gesture of love.–

    Can you substantiate these claims?

    –If this is awful in your estimation, I am afraid to think of what “message” isn’t awful in your eyes.–

    I would think that extraordinary claims would require extraordinary evidence, wouldn’t you? Do you think we’d really be swayed by theology passed on by word-of-mouth over millennia by one particular religion?

    –One should not speak of things they do not know…the power of Christ and His love is a real and tangible experience.–

    Can you prove this to a Hindu, Buddhist, or Muslim when they have the same feelings for their beliefs as you do? Can you prove this to an atheist without using personal experiences that can’t be verified methodologically?

    –My sincerest desire is that at one point in your life, that you consider Jesus’ REAL message.–

    Are you the arbiter of that REAL message? Are there ways to verify this REAL message outside of personal experience?

    • My testimony is true. I have experienced all that I have written. I sat rotting in jails and was an alcoholic and an addict and a very large piece of dung; and when I wanted to die…Christ in a very experiential way, reached out a hand in love. I am blessed and free from the bondage I put myself in…there can be no other explanation because I am a sane man and what happened to me was no less than a miracle. Words are words; but the Spirit moves through them in power beyond imagination. I’m sorry that religion has clouded the path to God. I am glad that Jesus simplified it. One cannot put into words what is Spirit; we can only trace shadows of what is inside of us that have been “born again”. If a person had the wherewithall, they could pray the prayer I prayed. “God, if you are there, make Youself known to me”. God is a personal being; He is meant to be discovered by those who seek Him…not in religion, not in someone else’s opinion, not inside of your mind. “He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him”. But how can you seek someone you don’t believe in? He doesn’t even care about your unbelief! Faith is a gift; it is the gift of being lucky enough to “see” with the eyes of a heart that has been opened when it didn’t deserve to be opened. Put God to the test…He will not dissappoint!

      • Jeremy says:

        You sat rotting in jail?

        God is personal, because he’s you.

        His ideas are your ideas.

        Unconditional love with a condition *is* a condition. You’ve listed a few conditions through bible verses.

        Good luck with your “truth”.

      • Kilre says:

        –My testimony is true.–

        Isn’t there a reason we take physical evidence from repeatable testing over witness testimonials?

        –I have experienced all that I have written.–

        Where did I ever doubt that you had personal experiences?

        –I am blessed and free from the bondage I put myself in…there can be no other explanation because I am a sane man and what happened to me was no less than a miracle.–

        Why can’t there be other explanations? Are you up to date with neuroscience and how fallible our brains are, and how susceptible they are to cognitive bias, faulty heuristics, and delusions?

        –I’m sorry that religion has clouded the path to God. I am glad that Jesus simplified it.–

        How has Jesus simplified it?

        –One cannot put into words what is Spirit; we can only trace shadows of what is inside of us that have been “born again”.–

        So you can’t demonstrably prove it outside yourself? It doesn’t have a measurable effect on the environment? Is there a way for a nonbeliever to test this Spirit, or do you have to already be deluded?

        –“God, if you are there, make Youself known to me”.–

        So you were already looking and found what you wanted to find? Bolstering your preconceived notions?

        –God is a personal being[...]–

        Can you show this using non-Christian methodology?

        –“He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him”. But how can you seek someone you don’t believe in?–

        “You can’t see snow unless you believe it exists”, am I metaphorically paraphrasing it right? Didn’t you say that truth is true no matter who said it?

        –He doesn’t even care about your unbelief!–

        And you’ve spoken to him on this subject, have you?

        –Faith is a gift[...]–

        How is faith a gift? If I have faith that my airplane won’t crash, how is that different from your obviously warped definition of faith?

        –[...]it is the gift of being lucky enough to “see” with the eyes of a heart that has been opened when it didn’t deserve to be opened.–

        How can your heart have eyes? Isn’t it an organ to pump blood around our bodies? Given that this is supposedly luck, why does a heart’s “eyes” not deserve to be opened? Doesn’t that verge on conditional love?

      • I apologize for using words that you do not understand. These things are understood spiritually…not scientically. I admire your fervor. People like you are closer to Truth than most. Examination is the key, but you have to be awakened first. I can’t do anything about that. But, I will pray for you and hope earnestly that one day, you can understand what I have so clumsily tried to put into words. Keep up your search and maybe you will look back one day and say, “man, that jackass commenting on my blog actually knew a thing or two” or maybe not…anyway, I don’t think we are getting anywhere here. I respect your perspective and I know that eventually you will grow weary with fighting the inevitable. Love will eventually chase you down, no matter how hard and fast you run…I honestly mean no disrespect.

      • Kilre says:

        –I apologize for using words that you do not understand.–

        Can you be any more condescending?

        –These things are understood spiritually…not scientically.–

        So you can’t prove anything you say? You don’t have any truth, only Truth, that can’t be proven, shown, experimented on, beyond personal, fallible, experience?

        –Examination is the key, but you have to be awakened first.–

        And this is different from waking up in the morning how? Can I just take a nap?

        –But, I will pray for you and hope earnestly that one day, you can understand what I have so clumsily tried to put into words.–

        Why pray when it doesn’t have any value and doesn’t alter the real world in any meaningful way? Have you seen the studies done that show that prayers don’t have a physical tangible benefit?

        –Keep up your search and maybe you will look back one day and say, “man, that jackass commenting on my blog actually knew a thing or two” or maybe not…anyway, I don’t think we are getting anywhere here.–

        Jackass? Deluded and terrible at debate probably, but how are you a jackass? Of course you’re not getting anywhere, how can you when you’re preaching and not having a discussion?

        –Love will eventually chase you down, no matter how hard and fast you run…I honestly mean no disrespect.–

        Again with the love; can you define anything of what you’ve been mentioning? Isn’t it hard to do any outreach when you are so nebulous and abstract and we on the outside have no idea what you’re talking about?

      • “‘Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom (spiritual realm) of God.’ Nicodemus said to Him, ‘How can a man be born again when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb? Jesus answered, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water (natural) and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit…The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from or where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit’” John 3:3-8.
        So you see, if this doesn’t make sense to you then you cannot hear…no matter what I write or say! The “heart” that I spoke of above is not the organ that pumps your blood…I am not trying to be condescending; I simply cannot communicate with you because you are using your fleshly ears and heart…not the spiritual ones, which are difficult indeed to frame in words. If you really want to know where I’m coming from, read “I Thought I Knew God” on http://www.disciplegideon.wordpress.com…when what you can’t see becomes more real than what you can see, you are on the right track. If you want proof, ask the only One who can prove it to you…not me! How do you prove something you can’t see! “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN.” Hebrews 11:1
        I wish I could open every persons spiritual eyes, but that is an individual choice that has to be sought and hungered. Again, I sincerely hope that what I am saying will eventually make sense to you, my friend. May God bless your search. I already put in a good word for you!

  8. Kilre says:

    –So you see, if this doesn’t make sense to you then you cannot hear…no matter what I write or say!–

    At this point I’m going to go ahead and stop with the questions, since it’s obvious you’re not open to discussion; you’re here to proselytize and not listen to any outsider perspective.

    Quoting the bible doesn’t do it for atheists. Do you know why? Because we don’t hold it in any high regard. It’s just an old book that a religious sect points to as their argument from authority. You’re going to have to show, from an outsider’s perspective, why we should even dredge up a little care about what the bible has to say, on anything, before we can continue down this “oh, you can’t see this because you can’t believe it” bullshit line of reasoning.

    As I was attempting to get you to answer earlier, there are things that everyone can see regardless of their beliefs (everyone can see and experience snow, Christian, Buddhist, or atheist) and then there are things that believers claim exist but which require faith to experience, and outsiders need not apply. That’s subjective truth, not objective Truth, and puts the lie to any of your assertions.

    Also, that quote from the bible just totally shat all over your claim of unconditional love. If you can’t see why you’re too far steeped in your own cognitive bias.

    –The “heart” that I spoke of above is not the organ that pumps your blood–

    I’m actually quite aware of this distinction, but since you first claimed that our heart has anything to do with the decision-making process that actually occurs thanks to the chemical reactions in our physical, non-spiritual brains, I’m going to harp on this nonsense ’til the cows come home.

    –I am not trying to be condescending; I simply cannot communicate with you because you are using your fleshly ears and heart[…]–

    It sure seems like you’re condescending when you’re telling us we just have to open our eyes, wake up, etc., before we can see the Truth that we can’t see unless we already believe.

    Again, if you can’t show that your beliefs are objective, like how anyone can see snow or be shown how a microwave works, or fuck it, how we can see light from near the beginning of the universe thanks to the physics of how light travels, you’ve got nothing except personal, subjective, fallible, human experience in a brain evolved to experience such silly things on a daily basis.

    –[…]not the spiritual ones, which are difficult indeed to frame in words.–

    I see. You’ve still got nothing.

    –If you want proof, ask the only One who can prove it to you…not me!–

    You think I don’t seek his existence, if only to prove how wrong you are? You’ve yet to even prove you’re not just talking to yourself; that everything isn’t all just in your head.

    And before that can go any further, there are examples of mass shared hallucinations in crowds of just this kind of religious experience, so you’re losing your legs to stand on rather rapidly.

    –How do you prove something you can’t see!–

    How do we know gravity exists? How do we know animals change over time? How do we know our Earth’s surface features change over time? How do we know the extent of Pluto’s several-hundred-year orbit when we haven’t even known about it long enough for it to have completed an orbit? How do we know air exists? How do we prove we have brains? How do we know bacteria and viruses exist? How do we know atoms exist? How do we know black holes exist?

    How do you show someone who’s never seen snow, snow?

    These aren’t hard questions. All of these things we can measure, test, predict, interact with, and see the effects of them on reality.

    –“Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN.”–

    Finally, a definition defending your point of view!

    I’ve got one for you, too.

    From Dictionary.com:

    faith
    noun
    1.
    confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another’s ability.
    2.
    belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
    3.
    belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
    4.
    belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
    5.
    a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

    –Again, I sincerely hope that what I am saying will eventually make sense to you, my friend.–

    It does make sense. It’s made sense since the beginning when I read your first comment. You’re deluded and completely subjective, living in a world that presupposes a being that can’t be proven outside of personal experiences that can’t be objectively shown to be true.

    –May God bless your search. I already put in a good word for you!–

    Well, good for you.

  9. George W. says:

    Disciplegideon,
    Is your message really the message of Jesus? I don’t think so.
    Christians have been called to the great commission, to speak the word of God-to bring people to Jesus- and the best you can muster is a condescending word-salad of reasons why you can feel that your conscience is clear for falling short in the eyes of God?
    Here is a skeptic- asking you questions- earnest questions- questions that no Christian has been able to satisfactorily answer, and your tack is to say “poor, sad, blind atheist- too bad for you that you have lost The Truth- but don’t expect ME to do anything about it!”
    I spent a long time in the church and people like you bruised my faith then and still do it now. I’m not sure where in the bible it says “Truly, I tell you, do not concern yourself with My children who seek with eyes closed- you are not your brothers keeper; instead, wave them aside with false concern.” Is that in Matt? Or is it 1 Peter?
    Telling an atheist that they can’t know Jesus is just not biblical. It is not Christian. Telling them that their questions have no answer until they give themselves to Jesus is a cop out. It is saying to Jesus “I’m not interested in working in your fields, I just want to be there at the harvest.”
    If this is the kind of Christian you want to be then don’t be surprised when people scoff at the messenger when he bears no message.

    • The issue here is that our commission is to take the Word to all people. It never, ever mentions in the Scriptures that everyone will hear it. The Message is Christ. There is no other message. He alone is the bridge back to the Father. I think in my explanation to the skeptic I may have mentioned that…Jesus said Himself that “having ears, they do not hear”, and “if you cannot hear My voice, then you are not mine”. I cannot judge who is hearing and who isn’t. If you don’t believe in God or His Word, you can only know Jesus as a historical personality…not the Son of God. It is impossible to categorically go through all the proofs and “cases for God” (by the way, “God doesn’t need a lawyer”-Bono) in a comment column. However, some people respond to Truth immediately. Most have to search, and on that search volumes of books must be digested including a daunting array of ancient texts. I wasn’t lucky enough to “get it” right off. But it did create a hunger to get to the bottom of the mystery that is a relationship with God. Over many years of search, I found the answers right in front of me. Another difficult task, if not impossible, is to witness to someone who doesn’t believe in the validity or authenticity of God’s Word. If one cannot hear God in His own words, why do you think I can “make” someone listen? Conversion, my friend, can be a moment of time or it can be a life-long endeavor…it depends on the person. I have tried my best to be polite as my comments above testify. The bitch of the whole matter is that in today’s world, we look around for answers. We look everywhere except where we know we will find true answers. We want to conform God into OUR image. I’m sorry you don’t like what you hear or see but Scripture tells us that the human-created system produces people who think they know the answers and it says “professing themselves to be wise, they become fools”. The answer has been given: Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life…not me! I am but a drop in the ocean doing the best I can and I don’t have a problem in my conscience, just a burning to tell others about the Savior of the world. I cannot and will not argue with someone over matters of faith…it is a waste of time. The blogger obviously has plenty of faith in science, but forgets it is a bad idea to worship the creation rather than the Creator…It has been going on as long as we have kept records of man. The beautiful part of being awakened to God is that you can see His hand in science…His signature, if you will. Contrary to what most believe, I believe in science as one expression of God’s awesomeness. It is no longer an issue; it used to be taboo to suggest that God and science could be combined, but the truth is science in the light of Intelligent Design, is more amazing and something precious to behold. Science without God is just describing shadows at best. There are people out there that have written volumes on scientific, archaeological, and historical cases for God, but one would need to read these to assess them. If you are happy with one side of the story…great…But realize there IS more to the story than meets a cursory glance. So the point is simple, not complex: Do you believe in God? And if you do, are you willing to seek Him? I can’t walk your road for you; that is your honor. Myself, as a man in love with Jesus, can only pray that His will be done in my life and hopefully in others that hear His voice. I cannot point to myself as you so creatively pointed out (I am not much), but I can point the direction to the One with all the answers…and if someone really wanted to “get to the bottom of the matter” they would simply have to ask God to make Himself real to them. He always answers. It takes courage to step out in front of God; opposite of what the world teaches that faith is a “crutch” or for weak people. If one doesn’t possess the fortitude to stand before God, that’s their problem because the God I know will settle wtih nothing less than a personal relationship with His beloved. It is a brave and noble thing that few men these days are willing to do and that is, challenge their beliefs in the light of desiring God. Formulate your own idea about God; you don’t need anyone else to do it for you. I just try to give a simple nudge in the right direction. God bless you all and feel free to read my testimonies to a spiritual life in Christ at my blog and comment or ask questions as much as you please!

  10. Kilre says:

    –but Scripture tells us that the human-created system produces people who think they know the answers and it says “professing themselves to be wise, they become fools”.–

    The irony is that the Bible is written by humans, for humans.

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